AMC Networks Inc. Price & Performance (AMCX)

Joining us this morning are Kristen Dolan, Chief Executive Officer Patrick O'Connell, Chief Financial Officer Kim Kelleher, to Commercial Officer and Dan McDermott, President of Entertainment and AMC Studios. Today's press release is available on our website at amcnetworks.com. We will begin with prepared remarks and then we'll open the call for questions. Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward looking statements are not guarantees of future performance or results and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ. Please refer to AMC Networks' SEC filings a discussion of risks and uncertainties. The company disclaims any obligation to update any forward looking statements made on this call. Today, we will discuss certain non GAAP financial measures. The required definitions and reconciliations can be found in today's press release. That, I'd like to turn the call over to Kristen.

Thank you, Nick, and good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today.

Before we get into the call, I wanted to say that we've been focused on supporting our employees and creative partners in Los Angeles during the recent devastating fires. We're thankful for the heroic efforts of firefighters and first responders and recognize the long term period of recovery and rebuilding that lies ahead for our people and the entire city. I also want to acknowledge the recent passing of our founder and long time Chairman, Charles Dolan, a visionary and [indiscernible] Mr. Dolan always took a long range view in business. Building companies and shaping industries with a clear strategic vision. We have the privilege and responsibility of continuing that approach today and into the future as we execute on our core strengths and advantages and navigate the changing world of media.

Now to our results. As we look back on the fourth quarter and full year 2024, I'm encouraged by our progress. Patrick will report on our financial results and outlook in greater detail, but I'm pleased to report that even in this uncertain and shifting environment, we achieved our full year guidance for 2024. This includes consolidated revenue of $2,400,000,000 consolidated AOI of $563,000,000 and most importantly, free cash flow of $331,000,000 Free cash flow generation has been strong and today we are increasing our outlook to approximately $550,000,000 of cumulative free cash flow over the twenty fourtwenty five period. At a time when all media companies are facing challenges, our size, nimbleness and independence allow us to move quickly to create new opportunities for ourselves and for our partners. Our innovative mentality is driving our approach to content creation distribution, advertising and new partnerships. This freedom and ability to take a more imaginative approach to our business played out in a number of ways over the past year. We ended 2023 with an unconventional experiment to put some of our shows on the Mac streaming service, where they quickly became top titles. In 2024, we built on this success with an expansive branded licensing agreement with Netflix that featured prior seasons of more than a dozen of our shows, including some of our most important franchises We believe exposure on this massive platform would boost fewer awareness and interest in our titles and that's exactly what happens.

The exclusive availability of current seasons on AMC plus drove viewership and acquisition on our own platform. The Walking Dead: The Ones You Live was added to Netflix last month and appeared on the platform's U. S. Top 10 list the following day and remained there for weeks, rising as high as number two. Ahead of Squid Game and other titles. As we prepare for the return of The U. S. Streaming rights to the original The Walking Dead series in less than two years, it's great to see continued strong interest in this very active and vibrant universe. Our partnership and bundling activity continued in the fourth quarter. We launched a two month content exchange with MGM Plus to promote sampling and drive subscriptions on our respective platforms. Subscribers on both sides of the exchange reacted positively. We saw double digit gains in engagement and acquisition on AMC plus led by the Sci Fi horror series From and The Walking Dead Daryl Dixon was a top performer for MGM plus spending multiple weeks in its top 10 list and peaking at number two.

We expanded access to the AMC Plus and STARS bundle by making it available through VIZIO.

We offered new bundles through Verizon and brought AMC plus to platforms like Filo. With a very positive consumer response. These arrangements help drive healthy streaming They also underscore the strength of our AMC Studios IP and ability to partner and reach viewers in new ways. As audiences continue to fragment, our number one goal is company is to produce and curate great shows and films and make that content as easy as possible for viewers to find in a very crowded and noisy world.

This strategy requires management of our own platforms and strong relationships with our distribution partners. In 2024, we renewed agreements representing about half of our U. S. Linear footprint, including multiyear deals with Charter, Cox, Verizon and Cable One among others.

And a reminder that our Charter deal will make AMC plus available at no additional cost to all Spectrum customers who receive AMC as part of their TV package. This is in keeping with Charter's broader strategy to bundle streaming value into its video service and will significantly expand the universe of people who have access to AMC plus In the last twenty four months, we renewed the vast majority of our Canadian distribution footprint with agreements that include easy access to AMC plus for our partners video and broadband customers. We also saw a significant expansion of our fast channel distribution with major launches on platforms like Roku and Prime Video, and we closed a long term renewal of Amazon Prime Video channels for the distribution of our streaming services. We kicked off our 02/1926 upfront last week hosting some of our most spotlighting our technological leadership in advertising. Building upon previous advances in addressable and programmatic buying through our Audience plus platform, we unveiled a groundbreaking attribution product called AMCN Outcomes. We now give our advertising partners real time insights into purchasing decisions that are driven by consumers' exposure to our partners' marketing messages. And later this year, as previously announced, we will launch an ad supported version of our popular Shutter streaming service.

Let me share a few programming highlights across our linear networks targeted streaming services and film business.

The fourth quarter included our two biggest annual programming events on AMC and AMC plus Fear Fest and Best Christmas Ever. On linear TV, AMC finished the quarter as a top 10 entertainment network with adults 25 to 54. With Fear Fest and Best Christmas Ever driving the network to its highest rated months of the year in October and December. BCE also attracted a record number of sponsors and advertising partners this year.

On streaming, Fear Fest drove AMC plus to record movie viewers Best Christmas Ever also showing double digit year over year growth in film WeTV remains the number one entertainment network on Friday nights among women in the twenty five to fifty four demo. 2024, We TV had two of the top three cable originals on Friday nights among women 25 to 54, including Mama June and Love After Lock Up, which is also the number one Friday original among black women 25 to 54, followed by the Braxton's at number two. The Braxtons finished its first season as WeTV's highest rated new reality series in more than three years. BBC America, which we now fully own, just premiered the most recent BBC Natural History tentpole series The Stunning Planet Earth, Asia, again narrated by Sir David Attenborough. We are excited to kick off 2025 with a robust slate of highly anticipated new original programming, including the second season of Anne Rice's Mayfair Witches and the highly anticipated We are excited for the return of Dark Wins on March 9, after the series first two seasons spent an uninterrupted month on the Netflix top 10 list last summer. This year, we'll see the return of The Walking Dead Dead City.

A thrilling new series called Nautilus, The third season of The Walking Dead Daryl Dixon set in Spain and a new series in our growing Ann Rice Immortal universe called Ann Rice's Tallamaska: The Secret Order.

Our targeted streaming services continue to delight viewers with the depth of content in distinct categories that are not available anywhere else. Shutter had an incredible year releasing six of the top 10 horror films of 2024 as ranked by Rotten Tomatoes.

Acorn TV brought fans another season of Jane Seymour in Harry Wilde Sharon D. Clark and Inspector Ellis, and we premiere a new series called Irish Blood starring Alicia Silverstone later this year. This is a sample of the depth and appeal our targeted streaming services offer. As research shows streaming subscribers continue to seek out special and distinctive as opposed to more of the same. IFC Films had a fantastic year. Its diverse fleet included critically acclaimed titles like Memoir of a Snail, Ghost Light, The Taste of Things and Late Night with the Devil, which set an opening weekend box office record for the company. I want to congratulate everyone at IFC Films for the recent Oscar nomination for Memoir of a Snail in the Best Animated Feature category. We are all incredibly proud of the film and grateful for this recognition. We've consistently emphasized programming partnerships profitability as our key priorities in running this business and moving the company forward. As we look back on our 2024 results and look forward to a productive year ahead, I'd like to also recognize our people. But as I see your progress, I'm thankful for our collective ability to adapt, evolve and lean into the advantages and strengths we bring to this dynamic and changing marketplace.

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Patrick for a detailed look at our financial results. Thank you, Kristen.

I'm pleased to report today that 2024 landed right where we said it would. As a nimble and innovative premium programmer, we've maintained focus on what is within our control despite a challenging linear environment. We are proud of the progress we've made over the last two years including reorienting our business around free cash flow investing in valuable world class IP and remaining focused on our balance sheet. We achieved our full year guidance for 2024. Consolidated revenue was $2,400,000,000 On an apples to apples basis, excluding 2023 revenue from twenty fiveseven Media, [indiscernible] and 2024 revenue related to the one time advertising revenue adjustments AMC and I consolidated revenue decreased 6% Consolidated operating loss was $40,000,000 and included impairment and other charges of $400,000,000 and restructuring charges of $49,000,000 Consolidated adjusted operating income was five delivered significant year over year free cash flow growth with free cash flow of $331,000,000 For the fourth quarter, consolidated revenue was $599,000,000 Consolidated operating loss was $254,000,000 and included impairment and other charges of $3.00 $3,000,000 and restructuring charges of $43,000,000 Adjusted operating income was $129,000,000 we generated free cash flow of $38,000,000 I'll now discuss our segment results. Domestic operations revenues decreased 9% to $2,100,000,000 for the full year decreased 11% to $520,000,000 for the fourth quarter. [indiscernible] Subscription revenue decreased 5% for the full year and 4% for the fourth The decrease was primarily due to linear subscriber declines resulting in a 13% decline in affiliate revenue for both the year and the quarter.

This was partially offset by streaming revenue growth of 7% for the year and 8% for the quarter. We ended the year with 12,400,000 streaming subs, representing year over year increase of 8%. Domestic operations advertising revenue decreased [indiscernible] 12% for the fourth quarter. The decrease was primarily due to lower linear ratings and a challenging ad market for entertainment and was partially offset by continued digital growth. Digital advertising revenue including addressable and revenue from our FAST and AVOD offerings, continues to grow at a double digit rate. And in 2024, this digital revenue represented approximately a quarter of our overall domestic operations ad revenue. Content licensing revenue $277,000,000 for the full year and $67,000,000 for the fourth quarter. [indiscernible] are a couple of items in 2023 that impacted the comparability of our 2024 results, including the final delivery of AMC Studios produced episodes of Siloed to Apple and the early return of rights from Hulu, which resulted in $56,000,000 in $20,000,000 of one time revenue in 2023, respectively. Excluding these items, our full year licensing revenue increased 4%. As our library grows every year, we have more SKUs to sell and while some of our bigger ticket shows like Fear the Walking Dead contributed less meaningfully toward 2024 results as compared to 2023, was more than offset by new business including Netflix, Sky in The UK, and increased licensing volume from our targeted services.

Domestic operations AOI was $620,000,000 for the full year and $152,000,000 for the quarter. Margins for both the full year and fourth quarter were 29%. The year over year decrease in AOI for the full year was largely driven by continued linear revenue headwinds For the fourth quarter, the increase in AOI is primarily driven by lower expenses and streaming revenue growth partly offset by linear revenue headwinds.

Moving to our International segment, International revenue included advertising revenue related to retroactive one time adjustments reported by a third party of $21,000,000 for the full year and $7,000,000 for the fourth quarter. Excluding 20 fiveseven Media, which we divested a year ago and the one time adjustments I just mentioned, international revenues decreased 3% for the full year and increased 2% for the quarter. On an apples to apples basis, advertising revenues grew 1612% for the full year and fourth quarter respectively.

Was largely the result of the strong performance of our AVOD offerings on the ITV X The U. K, as well as increased ratings and growth across our Central and Northern European advertising markets. Subscription revenues declined 11% for the full year and 5% for the quarter. For the full year, the decrease in subscription revenue was attributable to the non renewal distribution agreement in The UK. That occurred in the prior year. For the quarter, the decrease was primarily driven by unfavorable FX. Moving to International AOI. Excluding the one time adjustments to advertising revenue, full year AOI was $45,000,000 with a 15% margin and fourth quarter AOI $1,000,000 We ended the year with net debt of $1,600,000,000 and a consolidated net leverage ratio of 2.8 times.

We remain focused on our balance sheet and we're pleased with the results of our efforts over the last This includes gross debt reduction of approximately $500,000,000 and the completion of a series of financings that extended our maturity profile now with no bond maturities until 2029. Additionally, we've maintained a healthy cash position and ended the year with approximately $1,000,000,000 in total liquidity. This includes $785,000,000 of cash on the balance sheet and our undrawn $175,000,000 revolver.

We appreciate the flexibility and optionality of our meaningful cash balance continue to expect that our capital structure will present attractive opportunities for us over time. Our capital allocation philosophy remains prudent and opportunistic. First, we look to support the business by creating and acquiring compelling programming, that resonates with our audiences, while maintaining healthy levels of cash flow generation. Second, we remain focused on continually improving our balance sheet, reducing gross debt and optimizing our capital structure. Lastly, M and A, share repurchases and dividends remain further down our priority list. Moving on to our outlook for 2025. I'll start with our most important metric, free cash flow. As Kristen mentioned, on the heels of strong cash generation we delivered in 2024, we are pleased to update our outlook today for the two year period ending 2025. We now expect to generate cumulative free cash flow of approximately $550,000,000 by the end of twenty twenty five. This implies approximately $220,000,000 of free cash flow for the full year 2025. Our outlook contemplates increased cash interest payments resulting from the recent refinancing activity as well as a year over year increase in cash taxes we lap certain tax benefits recognized in 2024.

Looking at revenue for 2025, we expect total consolidated revenue for the full year 2025 to decrease approximately 5% as compared to 2024. Implying total revenue of approximately $2,300,000,000 As it is still early in the year, the geography of certain revenue and expense items may shift as the year unfolds. Notwithstanding that, I'll unpack the current assumptions that underpin our outlook.

First, regarding domestic operations subscription revenue, we expect 2025 subscription revenue to be flat as compared to 2024. We anticipate that linear subscriber headwinds will persist and will result in slightly worse year over year affiliate revenue growth as compared to 2024. [indiscernible] will be offset by accelerated streaming growth. Streaming revenue growth will be driven by price increases, expanded distribution of our offerings and discretionary marketing investments. As such, we expect streaming revenue growth in the low to mid teens percent area compared to 2024. With respect to advertising revenue, as I mentioned earlier, digital advertising revenue growth remains robust and we're now growing off a more meaningful base. Notwithstanding that, the linear ratings environment and entertainment ad marketplace continues to be challenging. Therefore, we expect 2025 domestic advertising revenue to decline as compared to 2024. [indiscernible] Content licensing remains an important source of revenue for us. And we continue to be innovative, aggressive and disciplined regarding this important revenue stream. As you know, licensing revenues are often deal dependent and can be lumpy due timing shifting delivery schedules. Today, across the many desirable titles in our library, we anticipate approximately $250,000,000 of domestic operations content licensing revenue for 2025.

For AMC Networks International, we expect revenue in the range of $290,000,000 to $300,000,000 for the full year 2025. As I discussed earlier, we recognized $21,000,000 of one time adjustment that benefited advertising revenue in 2024. For 2025, excluding these 2024 adjustments, we expect year over year international Additionally, we anticipate the subscription revenue would decrease year over year largely owed to a recent non renewal with Movistar in Spain. We expect that this non renewal will represent a $15,000,000 headwind to both revenue and AOI in the segment. Moving to expenses. For 2025, we expect consolidated technical and operating expenses to increase as compared to 2024. Driven by higher non amortization technical and operating expenses including certain duplicate expenses related to our technology outsourcing transformation. This will be partly offset by year over year decrease in programming amortization related to our 2025 slate timing and composition and programming write offs that occurred in 2024. For SG and A, we anticipate a year over year increase in SG and A expense for 2025. Primarily related to increased streaming related marketing investments, which we anticipate will drive profitable streaming growth. In terms of consolidated adjusted operating income, while we see strong streaming and digital advertising revenue growth, and expect our portfolio of streaming services will contribute to consolidated AOI in 2025 The dynamics I just discussed including continued linear revenue headwinds and year over year expense growth, remain the primary factors in driving our AOI outlook.

As such, we expect consolidated AOI for the full year to be in the range of $400,000,000 Cash programming spend can vary quarter to quarter and year to year. And for 2025, we expect a slight decrease in year over year cash programming spend to the timing of our programming commitments. As Kristen said earlier, we take a long range view of the business and we're managing AMC Networks with a clear strategic plan centered around programming, partnerships and profitability. As we enter our third year since reorienting the business, this strategy continues to animate our market approach. Our commitment to creating high quality content remains at the center of everything we do. As an independent, nimble and innovative premium programmer, we approach the marketplace a bit differently than others.

Including building out our library of powerful franchises monetizing our content across an evolving distribution ecosystem and driving profitable outcomes. We'll continue to preserve capital with a focus on our balance sheet and cash flow generation and balance appropriate levels of programming investment against the available monetization opportunities. Operator, Thank you. Our first question comes from Thomas Yee with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

Thanks so much. I wanted to ask about the free cash flow outlook in the context of your cash [indiscernible] comments [indiscernible] $930,000,000 of cash spend you put up I think, this year ended up being a little bit lower than the $1,000,000,000 you guided to. You spoke to further decreases in 2025. How much of that is timing versus just an increased focus on efficiency? And your outlook updated in terms of how you see the the potential opportunity for putting new content to work in the system.

You're great. Hey, Thomas. This is Patrick. Thanks for the question. Our strategy remains the same, right, which is balancing investments in our programming with driving profitability in the business. Obviously, programming is our our largest expense category. We're extraordinarily focused on maintaining a portfolio of super high quality scripted programming across linear streaming, etcetera, We continue to do that even as others have pulled back from the market. And frankly, the in many of our affiliate conversations. So the strategy has not changed. In terms of the specifics, free cash in 2024 than we have initially guided to. This is us just being prudent. We're able to produce on a per episode basis a little bit better than we expected. We've got some fantastic people internally who are taking an available or taking advantage of of all the tools available to produce efficiently. So we've been the beneficiary of that. And we have also instituted a program where we're sharing more content across channels, platforms, etcetera. That's allowed us to sort of program the broader company a bit more efficiently. But we obviously remain committed to similar levels of cash programming spend going forward. So I would say efficiency was kind of the reason for the B in 2024 slight reductions in volume going forward, but not significant.

We're producing at similar volumes going forward into 2025. The slight sort of decrease that I expect in cash programming for 2025 has to do with sort of those two factors, I would say, One, modest reductions in volume, but not anything dramatic. And then two, and you might appreciate this, there is a lag in RV receipt of certain tax credit receivables. Those are going to there's a bunch of them they're going to hit in 2025. So those net out against our cash programming expenses. And that's driving part of the reduction in the year over year decline.

Okay.

And just wanted to just reiterate and we were pretty specific about it in the script that The quality of the content that Dan and team continue to produce is it's very reassuring to see the attention we got on Netflix, the Oscar nod, NOD for memoir and just overall the response that we have and the engagement that we have to the shows that we're producing. And we've really been able to capitalize win shows like Darryl Dickson, where we're filming in Spain or in France on tax efficiencies. We have some shows planned in Canada. We do a lot in Ireland. So we're really optimizing without in any way compromising the integrity and the quality of what's coming out of our shop.

Okay, understood. That's helpful. And some nice momentum in the streaming subscriber growth continued into 4Q. Sounded like bundled partnerships helped, but also the Netflix licensing deal was a contributor as well. You maybe just tease out the balance of the contribution between those two? And how we kind of see the outlook being supported in 2025 from a volume perspective in AMC plus and maybe the future of the targeted streaming services.

And then if I could just squeeze one last one in that same kind of context. Just a clarification on the guide. Is the charter deal showing up in some allocated form between affiliate and streaming in terms of the subcomponents, Patrick, that you provided?

Great. Thanks, Thomas. Yes, listen, on the streaming subs, listen, we continue to have pretty good momentum across all of our services. And when you look at it, across the entire business, We had sort of the lowest churn or we had year over year declines in on a consolidated basis across the portfolio. So obviously, retaining subscribers kind of helps helps drive the numbers. We've also, as you pointed out, been the beneficiary of some fantastic kind of bundled arrangements. As Christian has talked about, a lot. We are very nimble very flexible. We love to partner with others. We're highly complementary. We think it adds value into the ecosystem. It's great for consumers. It's obviously great for us in terms of being able to distribute product with a little bit less kind of hard marketing dollars. So those are very efficient go to market channels for us. As we look forward into 2025, we're expecting really healthy streaming revenue growth. That will be driven by a lot of price action but also kind of unit volume as well. So we're really excited about this momentum and I'd point out for folks that if you unpack the guide, you'll notice that we've called out sort of flat subscription revenue year over year. [indiscernible] that implies almost $100,000,000 of incremental streaming revenue here.

Which is going to essentially offset some of the secular declines in new business. So super excited about that. In terms of the specific geography on the guidance, in terms of revenue, you should assume that that charter deal is baked into the specific revenue line items that we gave.

More to come on and that importantly, that deal doesn't kick in until Q1. So we'll have more to say in terms of the details, in terms of subscribers, but you should just take the guide at face value at this point. Charter deals baked in.

And just to add on the streaming equation, the partnerships that we're engaging for bundles are important, but also our relationships with our wholesalers. So Amazon, Roku, Filo, other folks that we participate within addition to the traditional MVPDs. Are really critical and they are great partners in giving us data and insights around our at really identifying a privacy compliant way who's watching what and how to engage with them in addition to the communications that are coming from their their subscription provider. So if Amazon is talking to specific sort of NASS and suggestions to keep the engagement level high. And then I'm particularly proud here of the team really learning and taking a page from sort of the Cablevision playbook on Triple Play and retention marketing that we're getting really sophisticated and smarter about retaining customers as opposed to just going after and spending subscriber acquisition money to bring them on board. So we're learning a lot and heavily, heavily focused on retention, which obviously will pay for itself in the long run.

Appreciate your help. Thank you so much. Thanks, Thomas.

Thank you.

Our next question comes from David Joyce with Seaport Research Partners. Your line is open.

Thank you. Could you please provide some more color on what kind of lift in viewership and linear ad revenue the you are interpolating is probably coming from licensing your content to Netflix. And given you did say there's double digit growth in digital advertising, just was wondering what it'll take to get that whole segment including linear to get closer to matching the Connect Thanks. Sure. David, this is Kim Kelleher.

Thanks for your question. I'd just clarify that the Netflix partnership is not ad supported on platform even though our shows are distributed on both their ad tier and on their ad free tier, they are distributed in a no ad way. So there is while just want to clarify that one point. But to your next question, I do believe we are making great progress.

The innovation we're doing in advertising which is really focused on three areas. It's to make our inventory more available to buy seamlessly, to use data as Christian just talked about in targeting to make our inventory more valuable. And then last, packaging our inventory access our full scale of viewership. At once regardless of how they watch TV.

So So we've mentioned on past calls, we've innovated with making our debut with industry first biddable programmatic buying capabilities embedded across our linear networks, We have added AMC plus app supported inventory to our cross platform and that's been incredibly well received by the marketplace. We're adding a shutter add tier as Patrick just talked about in Q1. So that will add inventory as well. Sorry, I meant to say in fall. And then it's that way we package that inventory, like really delivering full genres to advertisers that are looking for targeted cohorts and audiences, really engaged fan communities, and it's working incredibly well. Most recently, as Kristen talked about in her remarks at the top, we launched Outcomes, our new performance product that's built into our audience Plus Insights and data targeting platform and this allows advertisers to see campaign out So what I'm saying is cumulatively, we are making tracks towards leveling out. The differential between the declining linear environment and the growth in our digital environment. It's just going to take a little bit of time.

Yes. Appreciate that. What I was looking for, I guess, was how are you interpolating your licensing to Netflix into what what kind of incremental viewership you're attracting on your linear properties, like the new seasons of you've put on to Netflix, for example?

I think it's not so much, I guess, a direct correlation with linear, but I would say what we're thrilled about is as we are launching the new seasons of these shows that were on Netflix prior, we're seeing significant increases in AMC plus acquisition based on people watching the earlier seasons on Netflix. So we definitely see a strong correlation between the viewed it on the massive platform that is Netflix and then they're hungry for more, so they come back to us and purchase AMC plus to see the latest, which is exactly why we it's the net definitely has worked really well for us.

Understood. And just one final thing if I could please. On the content licensing, are there specific projects that are being sold to third parties like you did with Silo, Iryo? Or is everything still going to be for your services the first? Yes. David, this is Dan McDermott.

From the studio side.

Currently, we're producing pretty much exclusively for our AMC owned platforms right now.

We do have a studio. We are able to produce for third parties when it's beneficial to us.

And it makes financial sense. We do have a lot of interest in our studio content. So we're going to be strategic and opportunistic as we go forward.

And when it makes sense and we can generate revenue and we'll be accretive to the business, we'll explore those opportunities. And David, it's Patrick from Yes, from the finance side. You'll recall the guide last year for 2024 was $225,000,000 of run rate content licensing revenue that was based on our current level of production We're at $2.50 this year, right? So I just wanted to did that help sort of contextualize the fact that one, we continue to produce at very healthy levels.

And two, the market continues to be extraordinarily receptive to the programming that we're producing. So it's a it was a net growth driver in 2024 and that we think it's going to continue to be a tailwind.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the call back over Nick Siebert for any closing remarks.

Thank you all for joining us today. Have a good day. Thank you for your participation. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

Good day. [indiscernible]