Copa Holdings, S.A. Price & Performance (CPA)

These forward looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially and are based on assumptions subject to change. Many of these are discussed in our annual report filed with the SEC. Now I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Mr. Pedro Geron. Thank you, Daniel. Good morning to all.

And thanks for participating in our fourth quarter and full year earnings call.

Before I start, I want to welcome Peter Donkerslott into his new new role as CFO.

We Peter has a strong record of leadership and strategic vision. Having held key positions with full P and L responsibility in multiple countries across the continent, for a large publicly traded company, and for the last five years as Copa's Head of HR. Where he has been an integral part of our success coming out of the pandemic. His understanding of our operations and company culture, combined with his strong financial acumen, makes him uniquely qualified to lead our financial strategy as we continue to grow and evolve in a rapidly changing industry. We're excited to have him step into this new role and look forward to the positive impact he will undoubtedly bring Peter will officially join the finance team on March 10, Following his transition from his current role in HR, Peter, I'll turn it over to you. You, Belon. And thanks everybody for joining our call today. It has been a great honor to lead Copa's HR team for the last five years. And I'm truly excited to take on the role of CFO.

As Pedro mentioned, in addition to my most recent experience, leading the HR team, I've worked in many countries through the continent as General Manager as well as overseeing commercial operations risk assessment and financial planning. As you can imagine, as a Panamanian, I'm very proud to be part of Copa Management especially given our track record of delivering product and connectivity our customers value, Combined with strong financial results and industry leading unit cost.

I'm eager to lead our finance team in building on the strong foundations and continue to delivering value to our shareholders.

Back to you Pedro. Thank you, Peter. I want to start by expressing my sincere appreciation to all our coworkers their dedication and hard work have been essential to Copa's leadership in Latin American aviation, and strong financial results.

To them, as always, my highest regards and admiration. As detailed in our earnings release, we delivered another quarter and full year of solid financial performance. Including strong operating margins, Despite facing several challenges throughout the year, such as the partial grounding of our seven thirty seven MAX nine fleet in January and the sudden cancellation of flights between Panama and Venezuela at the July, we were able to deliver an operating margin of 21.9% for the year. Our 2024 financial results are a testament to the disciplined execution of our business model our focus on low unit cost continued expansion of our leading hub of The Americas and a passenger friendly product including vessel time performance. The combination of these factors has allowed us to deliver strong financial results on a consistent basis. [indiscernible] I'll go over the main highlights for the fourth quarter. We increased capacity by 7.2% year over year Unit revenues or RASM came in at $0.113 a 10.4% decrease compared to Q4 'twenty three, mainly driven by 10.8% year over year decrease in [indiscernible] The yield result was mainly driven by weaker currencies Latin America as well as increased industry capacity in the region. Unit revenues were also impacted by the ongoing effect of the rescheduling of flights due to the cancellation of the Panama Venezuela operations at the July.

Unit cost excluding fuel or CASM X came in at $0.059 a 2.6% improvement compared to Q4 mainly driven by the increase of direct sales in both coba.com and our lower cost NDC travel agency channel.

Our operating margin for the quarter came in at 23.3 As for the full year 2024, Capacity increased by 8.6% year over year in line with our last guidance Unit revenues or RASM decreased by 8.2% compared to 2023 to $0.115 CASA makes fuel came in at $0.058 3% below 2023 This is a milestone achievement for us. As we delivered our full year CASM ex target one year earlier than stated in our twenty twenty three Investor Day. And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, we achieved a 21.9% operating margin for the year. On the operational front, Copa was recently recognized by Serum for the tenth time as the most on time airline in Latin America for 2024. Copesan time performance of 88.2% was once again the highest of any carrier in The Americas and the third best in the world. Additionally, for 2024, Copa was recognized by SkyTrak for the ninth consecutive year as the best airline in Central America and The Caribbean. These awards belong to more than 8,000 coworkers who day in and day out consistently deliver a world class travel experience for our customers. Turning over to our expectations for 2025. In terms of demand, we're projecting a continuation of the current demand environment in the region.

On the cost front, we expect to deliver consistent unit cost year over year maintaining our cost discipline These two factors together lead us to once again expect to deliver strong margins for the year, as well as continued growth as we anticipate growing our year over year capacity within a range of 7% to eight Daniel will provide more details regarding our full year guidance. To summarize, we delivered strong fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results We continue to execute on our cost efficiencies which remain key to our strategy going forward. We will keep growing our network the most complete and convenient hub for travel in The Americas. [indiscernible] We expect to deliver strong financial results in 2025, And as always, our team continues to deliver world leading operational results and a passenger friendly product.

Now I'll pass it over to Daniel will go over our financial highlights.

We reported a net profit for Q4 of 100 and or $3.99 share.

For the full year, our net profit came in at $608,500,000 or $14.56 per share.

In terms of operating income, we reported an operating profit for the quarter of $204,200,000 and an operating margin of 23.3%. Our operating profit for the full year came in at $753,400,000 in 21.9% of operating margin. Turning now to our balance sheet. As of the end of the year, we had over $1,400,000,000 in cash short and long term investments. Represents 42% of the company's last twelve month revenue. We ended the year with $2,000,000,000 in debt and lease liabilities. Adjusted net debt to EBITDA ratio of 0.5x Our average cost of debt entirely related to aircraft financings remains highly competitive at an average rate of 3.5%. Approximately 65% of this debt is fixed rate. Regarding our fleet, we received two additional Santros MAX-8s in the fourth quarter to end the year with a total fleet of 112 aircraft. Looking ahead to 2025, we expect to receive 13 additional seven to seven MAX-8s starting with two in June and one additional Boeing seven thirty seven-eight hundred freighter With these additions, we expect the year end fleet to reach 126 aircraft, As of now, we have secured an operating lease agreement for the additional freighter in financing for three of the Boeing ten thirty seven MAX eight deliveries via JOCO financing.

Turning now to the return of value to our shareholders. I'm pleased to announce that for 2025, the Board of Directors has approved a quarterly dividend payment of $1.61 per share to be paid in the months of March, June, September and December. Subject to the board ratification each quarter. I'd like to highlight that this maintains last year's dividend payout. The first quarterly payment will be made on March 14 to all shareholders of record as of February 2020 February 28. Furthermore, during 2024, the company has repurchased $87,000,000 of its ongoing $200,000,000 share repurchase program.

Which represented approximately 2% of the total outstanding shares as of the end of twenty twenty four. $37,000,000 of the $87,000,000 were executed in the fourth quarter. Finally, turning to our outlook. Consistent with what Pedro shared, we can provide the following guidance for the full year 2025.

We expect to increase our capacity in ASMs within a range of 7% to 8% year over year. We expect to deliver an operating margin within a range of 20% to 22%. We are basing our outlook on the following assumptions. Load factor of approximately 86.5%, unit revenues of around $0.113 CASM ex fuel of approximately $0.058 and we're expecting an all in fuel price of $2.6 per gallon. Thank you. Now we'll open the call for questions from analysts.

Please standby while we compile the Q and A roster. Our first question is from Savi Syth with Raymond James. Please proceed. Hey, good morning everyone and congratulations Peter, look forward to working with you Just if I might on the the suite details that you shared, it looks like the MAX still a little bit lower than you thought in August, but a little bit more. Is that kind of the color that Boeing is giving you? And then as you look to 2026, it looks like only six. So curious why the slower delivery expectation and just general thoughts on how you're thinking about this capacity growth?

Right. So without making you call Boeing, So they explained the delivery schedule. We're actually okay with the schedule we're getting. So it's 13 aircraft this year most in the second half of the year. So we'll get two in June, the other 11 in the second half of the year, but many will be in the fourth quarter and at least two of the aircraft are going to fly early in 2026. So we could think it's 11 this year, eight in 2026 in terms of the when we're going to activate them. And we feel that's okay in terms for additional frequencies and new destinations we're perfectly fine with that delay reschedule.

That's helpful. And Just maybe really a follow-up related to that. On the CapEx side, just is the the thinking then still for this year mostly unchanged or does that move up? I think the last time it was I think that gross CapEx maybe closer to $900,000,000 and cash CapEx of $350,000,000 and is that like a good way to think about next year as well?

Hi, it's Daniel here. So yes, CapEx for this year, it's a function of change, it will be a little bit lower between the $850,000,000 range Cash CapEx probably around $200,000,000 For next year, it's going to be lower.

Given we have only six deliveries. So that's approximately $450,000,000 next year. Very helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Adewen Fenningworth with Evercore ISI. Please proceed.

Hi, good morning. I wonder if you could speak to the sequential trend in RASM relative to the fourth quarter decline and the prospects for an inflection in the back half of this year.

Okay.

So As you know, we give yearly RASM guidance not quarterly guidance. But in general terms, our guidance and what we've seen especially in the second half of twenty twenty four, was the impact of currency weakness in our region in Brazil and a few other countries, but also additional capacity industry capacity in general that includes our own growth. And other length in the markets that are relevant to Copa, which are the ones we focus on. And we're assuming kind of the same trend to continue this year, maybe a slightly improvement in the first quarter, but overall pretty much the same trend. So you could say rightly so, that there could be a positive inflection point in the second half of the year. If everything goes the right way. So we are guiding for more of the same and not for a significant recuperation on currencies or strength of demand or capacities slowing down So but if those things change, yes, the second half could be better. Thank you.

Thank you. One moment for our next question, please. And it's from the line of Guillermo Mendez with JPMorgan. Please proceed.

Hey, thanks everyone and best wishes on to Peter on Disney role. Pedro, you mentioned some several times about the, let's say, excessive capacity in some of the regions that you compete potentially impact yields in RASP into this year. Can you please provide more color on which regions or which routes exactly are you seeing more, let's say, overcapacity or tougher competitive environment? Thank you.

Right. So well, usually when we talk about our region, it's of course The Americas. Where we operate and it includes North America, Central, South and The Caribbean. And it changes obviously. There might be a country in particular, I guess, more capacity at a given time. But it usually comes from the whole region. And it's hard to separate by by specific countries. But what we have seen is that Even though overall industry capacity has been growing somewhere between 510%, maybe in the 6% to 7% rate, which is similar to what our growth what was our growth in 2024. In some markets in particular, like for example, Brazil [indiscernible] Maybe a little bit in yes, Brazil and Colombia mostly, I would say, maybe Central America also. We have seen capacity growth more close to the 20% range.

And that in some cases includes some of our own capacity, I must say.

Got it.

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Tom Fitzgerald with TD Cowen. Please proceed.

Hi. Thanks so much for the time. Would you just mind updating us how you think about managing your inventory and revenue management broadly just given the FX volatility that we've seen in some of your major markets like Brazil or Mexico?

Well, it's the FX volatility we were exposed to last year to the bottom line greater than what we had seen in a while. I believe the year before 2023 was almost nothing. And this year, we actually off to a better start. We have made up for some of the the losses in 2024. It's mostly transitional [indiscernible] That was a hybrid of transactional and translational. So it's mostly translation. Translation, sorry for that again. And so it depends on our net asset value and our average net asset value So some of the currencies have strengthened this first month of the year. So some we've made up, but it's very hard to predict. We don't really and we I must say we price in dollars. We definitely we price in dollars, but it's sold the local currency. At the dollar exchange rate for that day, but our net asset get impacted in that translation.

So we don't really plan for that and I don't think there's much we can do 10. Example, in Brazil, where we sell in installments We do hedge half of our Brazilian sales. So of the of the loss that you see in our P and L close to $5,000,000 shows up in a different line. Because that's our hedge gain from our Brazilian currency hedge. So the net impact is really closer to 28 for the year and 33 Okay. That's really helpful. Thanks so much for that color. And just as a follow-up What are you hearing from some of your corporate clients and the multinationals in the region? Just how they're thinking about business travel and demand? Just given all the noise around tariffs and geopolitics? Thanks again for the time.

We're very much in intra Latin America, U. S. To Latin America and What we're seeing, I would say, is in terms of percent of business traffic in our corporate accounts, flat pretty much right now year over year. And we're expecting we're not expecting growth there. We think it's going to remain flat. I mean, there will be growth, tied to our capacity, but not in share of share of revenue. So what we're hearing, it doesn't really change the picture.

In intra Latin America and U. S. To Latin America traffic. And it's from Alberto Valerio with UBS.

Please proceed. Alberto, your line is open. Question Can you hear me now?

Yes. Hi, Alberto. Yes, we hear you well. [indiscernible] thank you for taking my question. I had one on traffic, the guidance that you guys provide. You just released the traffic for January and become really strong. Number that we have some issues on rounding last year.

But looking forward, the seasonality base The guidance was a little bit conservative And am I wrong on this assumption for the year?

At a steep January or January was one off stronger than usual for the month. Yes. January, impacted by the MAX grounding in January 24.

So and it's a footnote in our traffic release because of course that 20 something percent ASM growth it's only because of that. They grew grounding in January. But for the year, when we average out that for the whole year, we were guiding to 7% to 8% growth that's based on the deliveries of the aircraft deliveries that we have scheduled for this year, we are not expecting that to change much And since most of the deliveries are at the end of the year, even if there were additional delays, the impact will be small. In our ASM guidance for this year. [indiscernible] it's about the yields. You guys have been performed better than the peers lately. And I'm wondering why lately I'm saying like in the past three years after that. And you mentioned that the mix did not change between The U. S. Travelers and the LatAmmer's travelers. But did change in this long space We had for a quarter more U. S. Travels that you used to have before pandemic at this moment. [indiscernible] to say or to refer to the mix between business and leisure and VFR year over year from 2024 to twenty twenty twenty five.

We're not seeing a change there. From pre pandemic, there have been changes.

And there is more U. S. Traffic You're right in that. And we did have a bump up in yields which was significant right after the pandemic when there was limited capacity and strong demand capacity has cut up with demand pretty much So right now, we are kind of back right now we're back to 2019 yields. In a way.

But of course, our unit cost are much better So we're delivering much better margins. And since three since the third quarter in twenty twenty two, we've been delivering margins over 20%, which is what we're guiding to for 2025 again.

Fantastic. Fantastic. And welcome, Peter.

Thank you. One moment for our next question. It's from the line of Michael Linenberg with Deutsche Bank. Please Good morning, everyone, and I got to tell you Pedro, you're probably one of the few airlines on this planet that you're seeing 2019 yields but lower costs. So It's almost as if you're from another place. But with that said, I guess two questions here.

When I look at the schedule for Wingo and 2025, it seems like supply is actually running down a bit.

And I'm not sure is is Wingo what is one airplane is one airplane going into maintenance or something? Are you shrinking that fleet or are you just lowering the utilization given the fact that Columbia overall has been an oversupplied market.

Well, two things. That have that are going on with Wingo.

One is that they might be flying more they are actually flying a little bit more domestic capacity. Which is shorter haul So overall, less ASMs. And they do have some maintenance So they will have some aircraft in maintenance, which they do during the low [indiscernible] reduce their schedules they adjust their schedules to compensate for maintenance aircraft. So that's probably going on also, but they're getting a they're operating nine seventy seven-eight hundred and they're getting a ten seven thirty seven-eight hundred in the second half of the year.

And their ASMs overall should be up for that 10 aircraft and utilization is not coming up it's not coming down. Excuse me. Utilization should be highly, I mean, slightly up and But anyway, we of course, we don't we don't we do not disclose specific Wingo information And so you're probably looking at their published schedules. Yes. The changes should just be that So maybe low season costs to cover for maintenance But overall in the year, they will fly more. Especially with the tenth aircraft they're getting in the second half of the year.

Okay. And then just I guess drives a follow-up. Low season Colombia what are those months? We're close to the Equator. I always get a little confused. What What would be the low season Like right now. Okay. [indiscernible] And you have Easter that is April good month and then the second half of the year is usually better than the first half of the year.

So there's less low season in the second half of the year.

Okay. It is when do I know you said you don't really provide results, but we know that again it's an oversupplied situation in that market. But we also know Wingo is a lower cost platform [indiscernible] there may be an incentive even with additional capacity in the region, there's other markets you can serve with Wingo that it may be there may be a natural incentive to to grow Wingo given that it has maybe a better cost structure than 5.8% is pretty competitive. So not by a bunch. We haven't grown Wingo in two years. Okay. Because there is that overcapacity [indiscernible] by one plane and which is not significant about 10% in the second half of the year. And just because of all the dynamics in the Colombian market, lower yields, over capacity or new capacity and the fact that at Copa Holdings, we love bottom line profits We just don't do crazy things.

Okay.

Okay.

And now my real follow-up, because I know we've got down that Wingo rabbit hole.

Just on cargo, to see that you're adding another airplane, the tariff situation and global trade and all that not [indiscernible] The fact is you must be very pleased with the one airplane willing to double the capacity how should we think about cargo revenue? Is that Is that doubling over the next couple of years with the second airplane? And you give us a sense of just like the margins or the profitability on cargo versus pure freighter, I guess, I should say versus your passenger business? Thanks for taking my question.

Okay. Yes, Mike. Well, a few things with cargo. We operate a single seven thirty seven boarding converted trader. So it's a single plane. Still most of our cargo revenue comes from the bellies of the passenger fleet of the passenger flights. So most of the revenue comes from that. The cargo plane has been very successful. The margins are very high for the cargo plane. So and much better our last few planes flying the less profitable routes. But just one aircraft going to two. So it won't be a significant impact. Our current single per month on average, which is a ton, it's a lot for a single plane. So once we have the two planes, the average hours per plane will not be nearly as and we'll have more backup. So it will be profitable. The margins are good. But it's not going to be necessarily [indiscernible] in the scheme of things, is one aircraft out of 120 plus And is that one of your airplanes that's being converted or is that coming Actually, that's a good question. That's a good catch. It's coming from the outside. So because of what you said, there's a lot of availability a lot of plants were converting and there's not that much market right now.

There is in our niche because our freighter is a niche operation. Which produces cargo that we also distribute in our passenger flight. So we do have the demand, but there was availability. So we're doing an operating lease of a freighter That way we can keep our passenger aircraft, which we need because of the Boeing delays we all know about.

Great.

Thanks. Sorry for the long questions, but really, thank you very much.

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Jen Spies with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed.

Yes, hello. Let me Congrats on the appointment, Peter.

Looking forward to working with you too and meeting you in person. I have a question on the VFR in The U. S. Had a Mexican airline mentioning that they saw a bit of weakness since The U. S. The new administration came into office. Something related to like immigration concerns. And I was wondering, obviously, you have a very different network, but you're seeing anything along those lines along your booking curve? And also you have to let me first start there. No, we're not. We're not our U. S. Traffic. It has VFR in the VFR seasons. Vacations, etcetera, it also had year round leisure traffic. And actually, our U. S. Network is doing better than than before.

Okay.

Perfect. And just one follow-up. In terms of buybacks, I mean, considering where your leverage is and the cash you're generating, you see any chance of accelerating a bit your buyback program? The pace? So we have two ways we return value. [indiscernible] We have a dividend policy, which it's usually 40% of the previous years Net income This year, as we announced in the earnings release, yesterday, we're keeping dividends at the same level as last year, which means that it won't be 40% of last year's net income, it will be 44% And then we have a buyback program of which we also communicated that we have executed $87,000,000 out of the $200,000,000 that is approved. So we have another hundred and $13,000,000 available. So what we do in terms of of your question is that we look at our dividend policy we look at our available liquidity, taking into account our CapEx need. Given that we've had delays in volume deliveries We have more liquidity than that. We had that one we had projected, what we had projected maybe a year or two years ago. So that's a reason for our buyback program, which is in place.

And I expect that buyback program to be finalized or executed throughout this year.

Okay, perfect. So the $200,000,000 would be complete this year. Does it have a limit, a time limit?

There is no time limit, no. Okay. No, there's no time limit.

All right, great.

Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Daniel McGinsey with Seaport Global.

Please proceed.

Hey guys, thanks for the time here. Couple of questions. First off, with respect to growth this year, can you share any perspective on the percent of growth tied to frequencies versus newer markets or just some of the thought process behind where that growth is going perhaps maybe the stronger economies in the region?

Hi, Dan. Lania here.

So yes, so the 7% to 8% growth is around two thirds is going to be full year effect as Pedro alluded to and around Another 20% is going to be frequencies and markets we fly. Today and then the rest is is some gauge because we have a higher seat count and aircraft and some new destinations course, Okay. And the second question here, I guess, Pedro, going back to the earnings overhangs that have been called out over the past year and today, I know you have been through a lot of cycles and just thinking to what's public in the local news there with respect to the Panamanian and Venezuelan governments. First off, is the Panamanian government working with Venezuela for normalized relations at this point? And again whatever is publicly available. And then just on FX, is it as simple as just letting it annualize or are there economic is there an economic growth dynamic that could offset some of that weakness faster than perhaps you would think?

Well, in terms of Venezuela, I'm not aware that there are any conversations to normalize relations We would like to see that, of course, but that's that's kind of like above our paycheck. And so no, I don't think there's anything going on right now. Hopefully before the year is over, we'll be able to return to that very important market where we had service to five cities 42 flights per week before the sudden cancellation at the July. So I'm hopeful that at some point, but there's no light at the end of the tunnel [indiscernible] The FX question [indiscernible] Yes. Sorry. I was just asking if it's as simple as just letting it annualize before we see an improvement or whether there was economic growth dynamic that could offset some of that FX weakness.

Right. I mean, it could something that's going to happen at the end of every quarter. So there could be there could be a good guide at the end of this quarter depending on the currencies. But then end of the year, we'll have the final number.

I see. Okay. Thanks for the timing guys.

Thank you. And our last question, one moment please. Comes from Stephen Trent with Citi.

Good morning, gentlemen, and thank you very Thank you.

Just one or two from me. First, I was curious, you guys think about your jet fuel tariff and expense I know you don't service like Brazil domestic where jet fuel carries seems super high, but you have any sort of outlier markets where your jet fuel carries in is sort of measurably more expensive than sort of the general level?

I think what's important, Steven, is that we're not at a disadvantage [indiscernible] And there isn't like a market I mean, the one market that will be critical for us is our home market, our hub market, here in Panama, but Panama is a competitive market. Due to geographic location The logistics of Panama, [indiscernible] point and there's a lot of storage capacity. And and oil companies. Also, So we are not at a disadvantage when words most important We're actually in a competitive market. So we're okay in that sense.

Great. Pedro, I appreciate that.

And maybe another kind of a follow-up to what Dan was asking. When we think about that geopolitical changes or political changes in The Americas and one thing people are kind of looking at are M and A and alliances and what have you. And I know you United Airlines have a very good one Do you see any possibility to make any pivots here in terms of how much you could collaborate with them or maybe there are additional layers you could add to that. Today, VRS is one of you could have done over the previous four years perhaps?

Yes. We have a as you mentioned, we have a very strong relationship with United that goes back twenty five years from the Continental days And I think it's pretty complete in that we Copa share We have total reciprocity in our frequent flyer programs. We even at times can plan capacity additions like the San Francisco PTY service that United is going to start in May and it's going to connect their strong Asian network with Panama. And from here, we'll connect it with South America.

So it's pretty it's not a JBA or anything like that, but we're very happy with the relationship. So I think that's really fine and in a good place. In terms of some of the other stuff, that's going on, We're always happy with where we are We cooperate with the European carriers. We cooperate with the We cooperate with the Brazilian carriers. We cooperate with the Brazilian carriers. We cooperate with the Brazilian carriers.

In that sense, we tend to do what's best for the business and in an in a very open minded way knowing that to cooperate is a two way street. And we try to make others better and same for ourselves. Especially with airlines, we do not compete against and that we can be complementary. I don't know if I'm answering your question or I'm going against around circles, but we can be more specific if you want, Steven.

No, no. That was great Pedro. Just sort of wanted to get get the high level view on that. That was perfect. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks.

Thank you. And this concludes our Q and A session. And I will turn it back to Pedro Helbron for his final comments.

Okay.

Thank you, Alf.

As always, thanks for participating in our quarterly call for your continued support Peter will start March 10. And he'll be very available, of course, and he knows Copa very well. He's been with us five years and I know you will enjoy working with him. And of course, Daniel, did an excellent backup to Jose today. Thank you, Daniel. You know Daniel very well. So he's also available as I am myself. And maybe just to emphasize as I've mentioned in previous calls, We've been preparing for years to be a more competitive carrier to be able to compete with success under any any manageable compensation, of course, And that's why we've been able to lower unit cost. We've had total focus in lowering our unit cost in strengthening our network and having a product that is today a great advantage for Copart Lindt in this whole region. And that's why we've been able to deliver strong results it's something that we're confident and we can continue doing in 2020, 2025 and beyond. So thank you all and we're here and see you in the next call.

And ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your participation. That concludes the presentation. You may now disconnect and have a wonderful day.