EuroDry Ltd. Price & Performance (EDRY)

And now, I'd like to pass the floor over to Mr. Pitas. Please go ahead, sir. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you all for joining us today for our scheduled conference call. Together with me is Mr. Tasos Aslidis, our Chief Financial Officer.

The purpose of today's call is to discuss our financial results for the three and twelve months period ended December 30 Please turn to Slide three of the presentation. Our financial highlights are shown here. For the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, we reported total net revenues of $14,500,000 and a net loss attributable to controlling shareholders of $3,300,000 or $1.2 loss per basic and diluted share Adjusted net loss attributable to controlling shareholders was $700,000 or $0.25 per basic and diluted share Adjusted EBITDA for the period was $4,800,000 The single biggest loss for the quarter was the $2,800,000 paper loss which we incurred by recognizing an impairment on one ELD vessel, which we had purchased at a relatively high price. Please refer to the press release for the detailed reconciliation of adjusted net loss and adjusted EBITDA. Our CFO, Tasos Aslidis, will go over the financial highlights in more detail later on in the presentation. Since the initiation of our repurchase plan of up to $10,000,000 announced in August 2022, and extended twice until August 2025 To date, we have repurchased 334,000 shares of our common stock in the open market for a total of $5,300,000 in proceeds.

We will continue to execute the sale repurchase We will continue to execute the share repurchase program around current share price levels. During this quarter, we successfully completed the refinancing of two of our vessels to a debt $30,000,000 loan which further increased our cash reserves by about $11,000,000 Please turn to Slide four for our recent developments. In November 2024, we signed a contract with Nantung Shenzhou Shipbuilding for the construction of two sixty three thousand deadweight Ultramax bulk carriers, Both vessels are geared at Gulf Coast and the build to EDI Phase III design standard. The three new buildings are scheduled to be delivered during the second and third quarters of twenty twenty seven The consideration for each vessel is about $36,000,000 and will be financed by a combination of debt and equity. Additionally, we sold motor vessel the eldest vessel in our fleet built in February. For demolition for approximately $5,000,000 in cash Motor vessel Tassos is a 75,000 deadweight Panamax drybulk vessel and is expected to be delivered to its buyers and unaffiliated third party by early March twenty twenty five, upon completion of her present charter, The gain on the sale of the vessel is expected to be approximately On the chartering front, the duration of the majority of our fixtures is short term.

Ranging between twenty to sixty five days according to their minimum duration providing us flexibility for future employment. You can see the specifics of the various charters in the accompanying presentation. Throughout the quarter, there were no scheduled dry dockings or repairs allowing us to maintain full operational efficiency. While we experienced no commerce of hire during the quarter, motor vessel, Bless Lag, had a seven day committed [indiscernible] in January 2025. Please turn to Slide five, Durodry's fleet currently consists of 13 vessels five Ultramax two cancer meds, [indiscernible] Our 13 drybulk carriers have a total cargo capacity of approximately 920,000 deadweight After the sale of motor vessel, Tas which is expected by early March twenty twenty five, EuroDry's fleet will consist of 12 vessels. Not including the Tashos, the average age will drop to 13.6 years from fourteen point five years currently. As a reminder, Eurodry owns 61% of the entities that own motor vessels and Maria The remaining 39% is owned by owners represented by NRP Project Finance otherwise referred to as NRP investors. Upon the delivery of the 263,500 TEU tonnes deadweight new buildings, which is set to take place in the second and quarters of twenty twenty seven the company's fleet will increase to 14 drybulk vessels and with the carrying capacity of just under 1,000,000 deadweight.

Please turn to Slide six for the further update on our fleet employment. Fixed rate coverage for 2025 is approximately 18% through existing charters. This percentage excludes ships on index charter which are open to market fluctuations but have secured employment. Our vessels are chartered under short term charters until rates rise enough for long term charters to be deemed beneficial. Turning to Slide eight, we go over the market highlights for the fourth quarter ended 12/31/2024 up until recently. In Q4 twenty twenty four, Panama vessels experienced a decline in both one year time charter and spot rates. The average one year time charter rate for Panamax vessels stood at $12,700 per day dropping to 11,250 per day by the December. Similarly, the average one year spot rate for Panamaxes during the quarter was $9,250 per day with a decline to about $7,700 per day in the last day of Q4. Both the Baltic Panamax Index and the Baltic Dry Index saw sharp contractions during the period dropping by 3028% respectively. However, from year end 2024 to 02/21/2025, one year time charter rates for Panamax vessels have rebounded by and similarly spot rates have increased by 14% in the same [indiscernible] On the Supermax side, we saw less violent drops in Q1.

Currently spot rates are about $1,000 per day higher than Panamaxes but one year charters are about $500 less than corresponding Panamax rates. Please turn to Slide nine. The IMF's latest update from January 2025 projects stable, yet somewhat underwhelming global economic forecast showing only a slight improvement to 3.3% of GDP growth from 3.2% predicted in October 24, This 3.3% GDP growth is also the estimate 2026. While The U. S. Has seen an up of the revision with growth now focused to grow 2.7% in 2025 This stands in stark contrast to other advanced economies, particularly in Europe, which have seen either downgrades or stable growth outlooks at around 1% only. Adding to this uncertainty, the new U. S. Administration's rapid policy changes and reversals particularly concerning trade policies and geopolitical conflicts, collectively pose risks to the medium term growth prospects. Global inflation is still expected to decline However, the near term trajectory to price stability may still be challenged with persistent services and wages inflation. In several parts of the road, leading to the synchronized monetary policy responses. Risks to the global inflation outlook will be tilted to the upside given the prospects of increased protectionism, geopolitical tensions and demographic constraints.

Emerging markets continue to drive global growth led by India the Asian five countries and China. China's growth appears to be slightly revised upwards but in the lopsided fashion with projections of 4.6% this year and 4.5% next year, as the country continues to face debit domestic demand, persistent deflationary pressures and falling property markets. India is projected to maintain steady economic growth of 6.5% in both 2025 and 2026 driven by strong investment activity, robust agricultural performance and continued expansion in the services sector which remains a key engine of economic growth. Southeast Asian countries are also positioned for solid growth benefiting from regional demand and investment momentum. Entirely to global GDP, issues, Clarksons' forecast indicate a more challenging period ahead for the drybulk trade. With demand growth sharply decelerating from 5% in '20 to just 0.9% in 2025, followed by stagnant trade levels in 2026. While supply constraints and environmental regulations may offer some rate support, geopolitical risks in the Red Sea persist and despite the Gaza cease fire, a swift return to normal shipping operations In light of these projects, [indiscernible] Given key macroeconomic risks and evolving geopolitical tensions, which could impact medium growth costs. Please turn to Slide 10 where we review the current state of the order book in the drybulk sector.

As you can see, as of February 25, the order book is currently at just 10.5% of the fleet, still standing among the lowest historical levels. Turning to Slide 11, let us look into the supply fundamentals in a bit more detail. As of February 2025, the total drybulk vessel operating fleet was 14,150 vessels. According to Clarkson's latest report, new deliveries as a percentage of total fleet are expected to be 3.7% in 2025 three point five percent in 2026 and three percent in 2027 onwards. The actual fleet growth is of course expected to be lower than the aforementioned figures due to scrapping and slippage. If the 10% of the fleet That is older than twenty years were to be scrapped within the next three years we would then opt with a fleet that has zero growth Factors such as increased load slimming slow steaming, higher scrapping rates and the tightening of environmental regulations could further constrain the available bulk of fleet whilst, of course, the reopening of Suez works in the opposite direction. Please turn to Slide 12 where we summarize our outlook for the drybulk market. As already said, in 2024, the bulk carrier charter market experienced mixed results and the Capesize segment experiencing gains while smaller vessel categories such as Ultemex and Kansselmex faced significant declines, The reopening of the Panama Canal and the easing of post concession, placed additional pressure on the drybulk market contributed to to decline in trade rates some of which reached multiyear lows.

The fourth quarter underperformed expectations with average fleet charter rates for Ultramax and consummec vessels falling by 25% year over year reflecting the broader market weakness. Looking ahead, the 2025 bulk carrier demand outlook suggests a softer market compared to 2024. A key factor in China's slowing dry bulk imports are not expected to match the robust growth seen in 2023 and 2024 While the recent government stimulus measures have supported they are unlikely to feed substantial structural improvements in demand especially given the persistently high stockpiles. Additionally, U. S. Trade policy is emerging as a critical factor for drybulk sector under the New Trump administration. Tyres from China, Mexico and Canada could disturb Could disrupt grain and minor bulk particularly if escalating trade tensions lead to retaliatory retaliatory measures. My initial reaction to the measures Trump announced yesterday regarding Chinese vessel penalties and extra fees when calling The U. S. Means that they will not pass as they remain and perhaps only consequence will be to make products imported to The U. S. More expensive to The U. S. Consumer. Meanwhile, however, the political risks in the red Sea remain unresolved. Despite the Gaza ceasefire, shipping in the region is unlikely to return to normalcy in the near term.

And any easing of Red Sea disruptions could further constrain dry bulk demand growth adding to the challenges facing the market. However, on the supply side, vessel ordering has remained relatively limited primarily due to shipyard capacity constraints and uncertainty surrounding the fuel of the amid a growing number of methanol and LNG fuel dollars. The order book to fleet ratio remains at historically low levels which could create a backdrop for a potential charter rate recovery if demand strengthens. However, trends differ across vessel classes while Panamax and Ultramax order books are returned at historical medium levels, the Capesize fleet remains near historical lows but is comparatively younger meaning fleet renewal pressures may be less immediate. Furthermore, the new environmental regulations excluding EXI, CII, EU ETS and Fuel EU are expected to further constrain vessel supply through increased scrapping as lower operational speeds. These regulatory measures could help mitigate excess fleet capacity supporting the market by reducing effective tonnage availability. Let's turn to Slide 13. As of 02/21/2025, the one year time charter rate for Panamax ships with a capacity of 75,000 deadweight tons is at $12,625 per day. Slightly higher than a week ago but below the historical median of $13,506 per day.

Meanwhile, the market for ten year old Panamax bulkavios remains relatively strong with current prices at $24,500,000 well above the historical median of $14,800,000 and the average of $17,400,000 However, as of the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, asset values have experienced a notable decline for the mid-twenty twenty of $29,500,000 reflecting profit broader market softening. We are closely monitoring the development If the markets drop further, and consequently vessel prices also drop, We will be able to acquire one or two more vessels. If the charter market improves, our current fleet will become profitable again. And with that, let me pass the floor over to our CFO, Sascha Sledis, to go over various financial highlights in more detail. Thank you very much, Aristides. Good morning from me as well, ladies and gentlemen. Over the next four slides, I will give you an overview of our financial highlights for the fourth quarter and full year of 2024, and compared to the same period of last year. For that, let's turn to Slide 15.

For the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, we reported total net earnings of $145,000,000 there's anything an 8.7% decrease over total net revenues of $15,900,000 during the fourth quarter last year. And this was the result of the lower time charter rate our vessels in the fourth quarter of this year as compared to the last Invent and other financing costs for the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, including interest they made at about $1,900,000 the same level as in the same period of 2020.

At Chaparito, we for the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four was $4,800,000 compared to $6,600,000 achieved during the fourth quarter of last year. Basic and diluted loss per share attributable to controlling shareholders for the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four was $1.2 calculated on about 2,700,000.0 basic and diluted weighted average number of shares outstanding compared to earnings of $0.13 per share attributed to controlling shareholders culminated approximately $2,700,000 basic and 2,800,000.0 diluted weighted average number of sales spending in the fourth quarter of last year. Excluding the effect on the loss attributable to the controlling shareholders, of the unrealized Cayman derivatives in the impairment on the vessel the adjusted loss per share for the quarter ended 12/31/2020 which have been $0.25 basically diluted [indiscernible] [indiscernible] earnings the fourth quarter of twenty twenty three of $0.71 and $0.7 per share based dividend. Let's now look at the numbers for the corresponding full years. 2024 and 2023. For the full year of 2024, the company reported total net revenues of $61,100,000.0 representing a 28.3% increase over total net revenues of $46.47600000.0 dollars during the twelve months of 2023, and that was the result of the increased number of vessels operated during 2024 and the slightly higher time charter rates earned by our vessels on average in 2024 Compex to 2026.

Interest and other financing costs again, including interest income, for the twelve months of 2024, amounted to $7,900,000 compared to $5,600,000 for the same period of 2023. Interest income was about $900,000 in 2023 versus $100,000 in 2024. Interest expense for the period or year was higher due to the increased amount of debt during the year as compared to the previous Adjusted EBITDA for the twelve months of 2024 was $12,400,000 compared to 14,600,000.0 during 2027. Basic and diluted loss per share attributable to controlling shareholders for 2024 was 3.54¢? Calculated on about $2,700,000 basically diluted weighted average number of shares outstanding compared to base diluted loss per share attributable to Konton shareholders for 2023 of $1,500,000,000 $1.05 calculated on about $2,800,000 base diluted [indiscernible] other number of sales. For the previous year. Again, excluding the effect on the net loss, attributable to controlling shareholders for the year, the unrealized gain on derivatives and the impairment loss on the vessel the adjusted loss for the year 2024 which has been $3.02 per share based on diluted compared to adjusted per share of about $0.12 basic dividend for the same period of 2023. Let's now move to Slide 16, to review our fleet performance.

As usual, we will start our review by looking at fleet utilization rates for the fourth quarter and full year Fourth quarter Our commercial utilization rate during the quarter was 100% while our operational utilization rate was 99.4% compared to 100% commercial and 99.5% operational for the same period of 2023. On average, 13 vessels were owned and operated during the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, earning another refined charter equivalent rate of $12,200 per vessel per day compared to 12.2 vessels in the same period the fourth quarter of twenty twenty three, earning another time charter equivalent rate of $14,570 per day. Our total operating expenses including management fees, general and administrative expenses, but excluding the operating costs, we had $7,087 per vessel per day during the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, compared to $7,340 per vessel per day during the fourth quarter of last year. Of the of 2020 If we move further down on this statement, we can see the cash flow breakeven rate which takes also into account direct working expenses interest expenses, [indiscernible] Boston Porto for the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, our daily cash flow breakeven rate was $11,529 per vessel per day, This compared to $12,263 per vessel per day for the same period of 2023.

Let's now look at the right part of the table to review the same figures for the full year. During the full year of 2024, our commercial utilization rate was 99.9% our operational utilization rate 98.9% compared to 99 commercial and 98.5% operational in 2023. On average, we own and operate 13 vessels during 2024, adding another fine charter rate of about $13,039 per vessel per day compared to 10.6 vessels for the [indiscernible] $1,312,528 dollars per diluted day. Our total operating expenses for the year including management fees, G and A expenses, [indiscernible] average $6,967 per vessel per per day in 2024 compared to $7,131 per vessel per day in 2026. Again, at the bottom of this table, we can see the cash flow breakeven rates which for 2024 amounted $13,221 per vessel per day compared to $13,041 for 2023. The increase being primarily due [indiscernible] we incurred in 2024 compared to the year before. Let's now turn to Slide 17. To review our debt profile as of December 31, 2024, our outstanding debt stood at about $108,000,000 Total repayments for 2025 and 2026 are $12100000.011300000.0 dollars respectively, with a small dollar payment due in 2026 of €2,000,000 and a bigger volume payment in 2027 of about $10,000,000 with an additional approximately $10,000,000 of repayments to be made in 2027. [indiscernible] in this slide is the average margin of our debt.

Which as of 12/31/2024 stood [indiscernible] one or 4.31% The estimated cost of our senior debt is approximately [indiscernible] Some of our debt for a lower rate. So our effective the effective cost of our senior debt is about 6.3%. At the bottom of this slide, we can see our projected cash flow operating level for the next twelve months essentially in 2025, broken down into its various components. Overall, we expect to have a lower cash flow breakeven level in 2025 of around $11,600 per vessel per day while our EBITDA breakeven level is about $7,526 per vessel per day. [indiscernible] dynamics and to be dynamic to Slide 18, where we can see as usual some highlights from our balance. This slide offers a snapshot to Pharosys and liability. On our asset side first, our balance sheet is very similar It includes the book value of our vessels which as of the end of twenty twenty four amounted to about $185,500,000 We said also advancements made for our new buildings of $7,200,000 and also set perhaps some of the assets, was about 29 point resulting in a total book Good value of passage. Of about $222,000,000 On liability side, as I mentioned earlier, our debt stood at 108,000,000 representing a power of 49% of total book value of our assets And we had other liabilities and minority interest of about $4,500,000 other liabilities and about almost $9,000,000 of minority indebtedness, the share of our partners in those two vessels.

Resulting in the book value of shareholders' equity of circa $100,000,000 or $35.5 per share. Our estimated market value of our vessel As of the end of last year, was $222,000,000 dollars approximately 20% higher respective book value subjecting of $4 to $5 Given the power surplus lately between $10 and $11 you can appreciate potential for appreciation that our stock has suit market conditions or other factors lead to a reduction of these discounts. And with that, I'd like to pass the floor back to Aristides to continue the call. Thank you, Dancers. Let me open up the floor for any questions we may have. Thank you. We'll now be conducting a question and answer session. Our first question today is coming from Tate Sullivan from Maxim Group. Your line is now live. Thank you. First, my first question please. For the 4Q impairment $2,800,000 Was that related to TASOS and then reversed and the current quarter. [indiscernible] capital gain. We report a gain on sale As Steve has mentioned in the number around $2,000,000 That was on another vessel, the Santa Cruz that was the last one that we booked. We bought one of the last ones that we bought that was bought on higher point in the cycle and our test indicated we should incur interim Okay.

Thank you. And then can you talk about the new build negotiations with any of your organizations? Have you worked with the specific shipyard and ended their newbuild price decrease in the last couple of months? Or how did the price negotiations work? [indiscernible] we haven't built anything at that shipyard in the past. But we did a lot of research and projects a lot of shipyards before we finally concluded with these guys.

We got a lot of information from other owners that we know that have also ordered ships at those shipyards maybe the last few years. And have had a good cooperation. And as seeing quality results So this obviously played a major impact in us selecting that shipyard. Having said that, okay, to the tough negotiation, as always on price and as the equipment that will be put on board and all that stuff, [indiscernible] I feel we got a good price [indiscernible] slightly softening, but not with the delivers in 2027. We're talking about delivers in 2028. These days mostly. So I think prices are probably around the same levels that we secured.

Okay. But for later delivery, okay. And then the specs on the new building you mentioned, so ECO imagine that describing means with scrubbers, Did you consider No, it does not mean with scrubbers ECO does not mean with scrubbers. It means the most modern electronic engine Practically, And the lower consumption that these ships have relevant even to the previous CECO vessels. So the vessels are very economic in their fuel consumption And then did that does that shipyard or did you consider shipyards with dual LNG engines or is that not realistic for dry bulk right now?

No, no, we did look at that and we did consider that and it is quite more expensive to provide for LNG as especially the LNG tanks that are needed. And we don't think that LNG will be a long term solution. We want to have the most modern up to date and economic ships with today's technology. Thank you.

Our next question is coming from Mark Rekman from Noble Capital Markets. Your line is now live. On Page eight of your presentation, one can see the difference between the spot [indiscernible] at what point would you begin locking in one year charters And what might you expect the average to be for the last three quarters of the year?

Very difficult. Too late projections, right? About what the average will be for the next three quarters of the year, extremely difficult. I will not risk it However, TASUS showed that our breakeven levels are around $11,500 per day If we go up to time charters for the more modern ships of $15,000.16000 dollars a day, we might consider it for one or two of our Otherwise, we will probably continue to play the spot market. The spot market is improving the traditional lull of the first two months we've experienced it and we are hoping that we will see a further improvement in rates within the next two, three months.

So it sounds like you're pretty confident this is the spot rates are going to continue their trajectory that there's not there's more upside than there is downside. In other words, you don't you proceed, you think it's still beneficial to keep those positions open with the hope that the rates keep going up versus ending up with lower and lower spot rates.

Correct. Downside there is downside risk, obviously. But it is not huge But upside, you never know how high it can go. So balancing risk risk reward we are keeping our ammunition right now and waiting to see how the market develops within the next Okay. And then the second question is really for TASOS. Looking at paid 17 and your breakevens, but I was just wondering if you might elaborate a little bit on the vessel expense expectations for 2025 relative to 2024. Given that you'll have lower or fewer dry dock days and also you've got the sale of the MV Tasos?

I think the chart I put on Slide 17 reflects the sale of Tashons and the scheduled dry dockings On the OpEx side, '25, but a preliminary budget we are using a 3% increase over the budget of last year.

I think we the year ended just below last year's budget for the operating expenses And we are budgeting conservatively 3% over last year's budget. I think all the details of the various components shown on the bottom part of Slide 17.

Okay. And then the last question is just I know it's a ways away, the The two vessels that will be delivered in 2027 Just how do you kind of think about financing that? I mean, I know you've talked about debt and equity. Will it be weighted towards debt or the equity portion, will that be cash generated internally or just how are you kind of thinking about that currently?

It would definitely be we have a good part of it financed with debt. I think judging from our previous financings 55% to 60% of that was financed by debt. We might try to get a little higher percentage in this case. The equity portion, we have obviously paid the first installment of percent and we have to make another three of such installments before the delever of the vessel, so another CHF22 million but we would need to to pay the yard in 2026 and 2027 before the vessels are delivered So we haven't really finalized our plans how to finance that. We have hopefully, we'll generate that organically, but we at the present market, it will be tough. But hopefully the market will improve. Say that, we can look for alternative ways to finance the equity portion.

That's great. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mark. Thanks for the interest.

Thank you.

Our next question is coming from Paul Fratt from Alliance Global Partners. Your line is now live. [indiscernible] Can you just Tassos, can you just go over the newbuild payments? It sounds like you're not going to have any new build payments in 2025.

Can you quantify how much of the newbuild costs will land in twenty twenty twenty six and then 2027.

I think in 2026, we have to pay [indiscernible] and another 10% that is another $7,200,000 in 2027 as a pre delivered payment And then finally, the final 60% of just will be paid with the deliver of the vessel I think Archibis mentioned the second and the third quarter of twenty twenty seven. Great. That's really helpful. And then just to clarify, it doesn't make sense to put on new builds at this point in time, correct?

This is not something which is certain. But some owners are putting on scrubbers on the smaller vessels some are not. Whilst I think that the verdict is out there for the very big vessels that have high consumptions, that you should put a scrubber on for Ultramax vessels that consume so little I'm not sure that it is worth it. I also have some reservations against the whole concept of scrubbers and how much they are and if at all they are polluting the sea. But No, we are not putting them on It only depends of course on how the price differential between heavy fuel oil and the low sulfur fuel oil develops. Right now, it is quite low. So there is no huge advantage [indiscernible] It might become even lower. So then there is definitely no advantage of having it might pick up again and you might recover the reinvestment of the scrubber in a small period of time. It's a different kind of investment really.

Understood.

And then Aristides, I think you mentioned that if asset values soften, you potentially might look at making acquisitions how much [indiscernible] can you give us an idea of sort of the current activity in the S and P market? Are you seeing a lot more potential transactions, Are asset values close to where you might pull the trigger on acquisitions Can you just give us a flavor for your current Your current assessment of the S and P market I can tell you that prices have been dropping ever since October, November last [indiscernible] the February, they were they had corrected, I would say, on the ten year old ships that we traditionally are looking at. They had dropped by about 15%. We thought that if they were to drop by about 30% from those highs, they could become an interesting proposition. A couple of deals were done last two weeks. In fact, we bid on one of those ships But the prices rather than continuing their shop We're elevated for these vessels. So they rose a little bit again. And now with the charter market improving, I don't think that we will see imminently lower prices. So we would like to see prices drop by another 15% to consider buying something.

I think I couldn't have been more clear Sorry, Tatos.

We're always on the look for interesting transactions. We're keeping my group is busy evaluating DMs all the time, although they don't pass the threshold yet.

And then, Tassos, how current is that NAV that you talked about in the mid-40s? Does that fully incorporate 15% drop in asset values or is that 15% sort of a lagging or I'm sorry, is that $45 sort of a lagging Is there a lag between which you see the the softness hit the NAV?

It's already I mean, if I recall on the top of my head that our previous in September valuation was around €250,000,000 if I'm not mistaken million So by the year end, the market has just dropped by essentially 15% Maybe by the January, late January, might have dropped a little bit more, but it sounds like it has rebounded a bit more recently. So I mean, it's on the ballpark. It is be more accurate for the end of the year. Remember, I quoted you in the presentation. But if we were to recalculate it pro form a to date by [indiscernible] it should be not far from it. Okay. And I know there's Steve, you're hesitant to put out your crystal ball on what the rest of the year is going to look like from a TCE standpoint. But you many other companies talk about what they booked in the quarter so far. A percentage that's already booked for the quarter and a rate that's associated with those bookings.

You have a similar metric available for us, sort of where do we stand at this point in the quarter as far as the first quarter I think Tasos can tell you after the call where we are based on our existing charters because now we're at the February. So obviously, I would think 80% of what going to make is already booked. So there is we have an idea about it but I don't have it in front of us. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] the quarter to date pretty much. I think on others, I can pull ballpark to be below $10,000 the average. Okay, that's great. But But improving, firming up And so the second quarter potentially would be look a little bit better than the first quarter. Hopefully, March would be a little bit better than The contract rollover in March will be better. And I would dare to say more certainty Q2 will be a little better because it's also a seasonally better quarter. But also already, I mean, the last fixer we did, I think, was the Janice which was fixed for $12,000 which is higher than the levels we were seeing even one month ago.

Great. Really helpful. Thank you. [indiscernible] Thank you. We've reached the end of our question and answer session. I'd like turn the floor back over for any further or closing comments. Thank you all for listening in in today. We'll be back to you at the beginning of what is it? May. May. [indiscernible] With the Q1 results, And hopefully, it will be better if the market Exactly. Francois, again.

Thank you for your participation today. [indiscernible] [indiscernible]