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At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to Fiera Capital's earnings call to discuss financial results of the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer period. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. Thank you. I will now turn the conference over to Ms. Marie France Gates, Senior Vice President, Treasury and Investor Relations, Ms. Gay, you may begin your conference. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Fiera Capital Conference Call to discuss Note that today's call will be held in English. Before we begin, I invite you to download a copy of today's presentation.

Which can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website at ir.fieracapital.com.

Also note that comments made on today's call including replies to certain questions, may deal with forward looking statements which are subject to risks and uncertainties. Uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from expectations. I would ask you to take a moment to read the forward looking statements on Page two of the presentation. On today's call, we will discuss our Q4 twenty twenty four results. Starting with an update on our AUM flows, followed by highlights of our public and private markets platforms, as well as our private wealth business.

We will then review our financial performance. Our speakers today are Mr. Jean de Jardin, Chair of the Board and Global CEO and Mr. Lucas Montillou, Executive Director and Global CFO. Also available to answer questions following the prepared remarks will be Jean Michel, President and CIO Public Markets and Maximilina, President and CEO of Sierra Canada. And Global Private Wealth. With that, will now turn the call over to Jean.

Thank you, Marie France. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today as we report our results for the fourth quarter and for the year of 2024. So global equity markets had an impressive year in 2020 with investors spending much of the year bracing for a soft economic lending and aggressive rate cuts. Stocks lost some gains towards year end as pricing pressures and an inflationist Policy agenda from the U. S. Administration brought into question the extent of rate cuts from the Federal Reserve in the coming year. Fixed income markets also generated positive results in 2024, but retreated somewhat towards the end of the year. The impact of the Federal Reserve's 100 basis points of rate cuts in 'twenty four was countered by concerns about persistent inflation. With the potential for wider budget deficits and higher tariffs, adding to the upside inflation risks. That saw investors reign in their expectations for rate cuts in 2025. Canadian bonds outperformed their U. S. Counterparts with the spread between the Canadian and U. S. Bond yields widening [indiscernible] Against the backdrop of higher markets. Our assets under management ended the year at $167,100,000,000 representing an increase of $1,600,000,000 for the quarter and an increase of $5,400,000,000 or 3.3% for the year.

Assets in our private markets platform grew 1% during the quarter. And nearly 7% during the year. To end the year at $19,700,000,000 driven by new mandates and positive market action. In our public markets assets under manage of $147,400,000,000 increased 1% during the quarter and 3% for the year. As market appreciation was partly offset by net outflows, which were largely Limestone related. Excluding assets under management sub advised by Finestone. Our public markets assets increased 2% for the quarter and 5.5% for the full year. I will now turn to highlights of our commercial and investment performance across our asset classes. So starting with public markets platform, Public Markets excluding assets under management [indiscernible] by Pinestone saw good cross mandate activity in the quarter with more than $900,000,000 of new mandates awarded primarily from clients investing in our global and large cap equity mandates. We saw positive net organic growth excluding Pinestone, for both the quarter and the year. Gross mandates were offset by lost mandates and negative net contributions. From clients redeeming from fixed income mandates resulting in approximately 800,000,000 of net outflows for the quarter. With respect to assets under management sub advised by net outflows were $1,300,000,000 $300,000,000 of which were outflows transferred directly to Point Zone And the balance being mostly related to client rebalancing and moving to other managers.

As we previously announced, in January of this year, dollars 5,700,000,000.0 of Pinestone equity mandates from Canoe were withdrawn and transferred directly to Point Stone. Client concentration in pine Stone has been reduced meaningfully over the last two years. Canute was the last large [indiscernible] Of the 25 largest clients currently invested in Pinestone, Under one third, our single mandate clients with assets under management greater than 1,000,000,000 So for the rest of 2025, we expect direct transfers to Pinestone could be up to an additional $1,000,000,000 We continue to execute on our decentralized distribution model, and with large fine stone redemptions now behind us, work towards returning to a sustained level of net inflows going forward. Now turning to investment performance and Despite it being a challenging quarter for outperformance, many key public market strategies generated alpha over the one year period and nearly all outperformed over the longer three and five year periods. Our Canadian fixed income strategies continued to perform well. With our strategic core and integrated core strategies adding value for the quarter and all three of our flagship Canadian fixed income strategies adding value over the one three and five year periods. Foreign fixed income strategies encountered a more challenging fourth quarter.

The global multi sector income strategy lagged its benchmark in the fourth quarter although it still managed to add more than 200 basis points of value added over the one year period. The high grade core intermediate fund and the tax efficient core plus fund also came in below benchmark in the fourth quarter but continue to outperform over the three and five year periods. While 2024 was a strong year for global equity market, for outperforming as more than half of the 25% gain of the 500 for the year, were driven by the magnificent seven. Under exposure to this group, largely resulted in returns that lagged benchmarks.

The U. S. Equity market is currently near its most concentrated level in one hundred years. With the top 10 stocks in the S and P five hundred comprising more than 35% of the index creating a very challenging environment for generating short term alpha relative to that index. After a long record of outperformance, the three strategies sub advised by Pinestone Asset Management underperformed their benchmarks for the quarter.

And for the year, The U. S. And global strategy underperformed while the E fee strategy added value. Mainly as a result of their under exposure to the magnificent VII and industrials. Our Canadian equity strategy also underperformance [indiscernible] Fiera the quarter, mostly as a result of non exposure to a security which rallied more than 60% in the second half of twenty twenty four. But however remains in the top quartile for the period versus its peer group. Despite a rare period of underperformance for our Frontier Markets strategy, In the fourth quarter, the strategy continues to deliver notably strong relative performance across all medium and long term periods. Lastly, the emerging market select strategy fell slightly short of its benchmark in the fourth quarter despite significantly outpacing it over the one year period, and two years. The strategy continues to post an impressive track record outperforming its benchmark. By over 9.5% since its inception in 2021. So before moving on I am pleased to highlight that two Fiera funds and one Fiera strategy have been recognized as top performers in the global manager research [indiscernible] This is the second consecutive year Sierra Capital has been recognized as a top performer by Global Manager Research, and is a testament to the effectiveness of our public market strategies all of which are built on diligent research proactive management and a strong commitment to sustainable growth.

Now turning to our private market platform. Private markets delivered positive net organic growth During the quarter of approximately 200,000,000 and close to $1,400,000,000 for the year, after returning capital of $184,000,000 and $556,000,000 respectively to investors. The growth was driven by new mandates of more than $300,000,000 for the quarter [indiscernible] 1,700,000,000.0 for the year.

Primarily from clients into real estate, private debt and agriculture. Close to $600,000,000 was deployed in the core it was deployed in the quarter and we maintained a pipeline of roughly $900,000,000 available for future deployment into future opportunities. So with respect to investment performance, our key private market strategies performed well in the quarter with nearly all strategies generating positive returns for the quarter producing absolute returns of 4% to 12% for the year. Private equity performed well in the quarter and produced a one year return of 11%. Our approach here remains focused on selective investment in high growth sectors with particular investor interest in technology and health [indiscernible] Our global agriculture strategy performed well in the quarter and generated a 9% return for the year. With the strategy maintaining a robust pipeline of new partnerships and potential bolt on opportunities. Our infrastructure strategy generated a positive return in the quarter and returned 9% for the year. In real estate, markets in Canada and The UK showed further evidence of recovery in the quarter after weathering a difficult valuation environment from 2022 to early 'twenty four, enhanced by rig cuts and improved liquidity conditions. We remain strategically heavily weighted multi residential and industrial sectors with limited exposure to the still challenged office sector.

Lastly, nearly all of our private credit strategies generated positive returns for the quarter.

In particular, our real estate debt strategies performed well generating attractive and low volatility returns as well as steady cash distributions. Central banks in the markets that we operate have continued to cut rates and signal for more potential [indiscernible] over the coming months and we are continuing to see demand for loans ramp up as lower rates and costs are allowing more projects to become economically attractive. Private Wealth assets under management. Increased by approximately $300,000,000 in the fourth quarter to close at 14,600,000,000.0 Assets under management were up close to $1,000,000,000 on the year driven by market appreciation and approximately 700,000,000 in gross new mandates We continue to refine and simplify the team and value proposition to strengthen client relationships and drive sales growth. Now with that, I will turn it over to Lucas to review our financial performance. Thank you, Jean Guy, and good morning, everyone. I will now review the financial results for the fourth quarter and full year, which were driven by solid year over year growth in base management fees, in both our public and private markets platforms. Starting with total revenues. Last year. Lower performance fees from the investment strategies in our public markets drove the year over year performance fee decline. [indiscernible] particularly when compared to a significant outperformance we experienced in 2023.

For the full year, total revenue increased $2,000,000 to $689,000,000 As good growth in base management fees, and higher other revenues, were largely offset by the lower performance fees. Base management fees rose $157,000,000 in the quarter, increasing 6% year over year reflecting growth in both public and private markets AUM. For the year, base management fees were $612,000,000 up 3% or $19,800,000 from the prior year, driven by higher average AUM Along with a higher share of fees from asset mix shift into private markets, towards higher fee mandates. As a result, our average fee rate increased to 37.4 basis when compared with 36.6 basis points for the prior year. Turning to public market revenues. Base management fees of $108,000,000 in the quarter increased by more than $5,000,000 or 5% year over year, primarily due to higher revenues from financial intermediary clients in The U. S, institutional clients in Canada and Asia. For the year, base management fees of $424,000,000 Fiera almost $6,000,000 higher compared to with 2023. This despite sizable outflows experienced during the first half of the year related to Pinestone sub advised mending. Performance fees of just over $5,000,000 for the quarter were down significantly from strong fees of $32,000,000 earned in the same quarter last year.

As emerging markets performance was challenged in the latter half of 2024, particularly during the fourth quarter. For the full year, performance of $8,000,000 were $26,000,000 lower from the prior year. Other revenues of $3,000,000 in the quarter were essentially flat to the same quarter last year and increased by $6,000,000 for the year. Mostly reflecting revenues related to a prior year insurance claim. While we are disappointed by the ultimate level of performance fees earned for the year, we are nonetheless pleased with the resilience of the base management fees generated by our public markets platform. Which despite the adverse impact of outflows related to the Pinestone sub advised mandates and lower fee fixed income strategies, were positively impacted by $1,500,000,000 in new mandate wins, across our Canadian, U. S. And Atlas global equity strategies. Positive market environment for the year further helped us grow our public markets equity platform ex Finestone from $29,000,000,000 at the beginning of the year to 35,400,000,000.0 by the end of the year. Now turning to private markets revenues. Base management fees increased by $4,000,000 or 9% year over year to $49,000,000 for the quarter. Base management fees for the year of $188,000,000 were $14,000,000 or 8% higher compared to 2023.

The increase was largely driven by higher institutional assets under management, our agriculture, real estate and infrastructure strategies. Performance fees were $8,000,000 during the quarter, $2,000,000 lower year over year mostly due to the timing of performance fees recognized from agriculture and private credit funds as a portion was recognized in the third quarter as mentioned on our last earnings call. On a full year basis, performance fees were close to to $17,000,000 or $1,000,000 higher from the prior year. Year over year commitment and transaction fees were flat for the quarter as $7,000,000 on a full year basis, commitment and transaction fees were just over $16,000,000 down by $2,500,000 versus last year. Share of earnings and joint ventures related to our UK real estate business were $2,000,000 in the quarter, a decrease of $7,000,000 year over year related to the timing and completion of our joint venture projects. However, for the year, share of earnings in joint ventures of $12,500,000 were up 1,000,000 from the prior period. Overall, we were very pleased with the results of our private market platform for the year, contributed revenues of over $241,000,000 in 2024, up $17,000,000 or 8% from the prior year. Revenues from private markets contributed 37% of our total revenues for the fourth quarter and 35% of total revenues for the year despite accounting for just 12% of our total assets under management.

In today's unpredictable economic and political environment, our private market platforms continues to provide attractive revenue diversification and margin growth to our business. Turning to SG and A. For the fourth quarter, SG and A expense of $140,000,000 increased just 3% year over year. Important to note that when excluding share based compensation expense of $9,500,000 during the quarter, SG and A was actually down 2% year over year. The higher share based compensation for the quarter was due to the acceleration of certain long term incentive awards and is not reflected of the expected run rate for share based compensation expense going forward. For the year, our SG and A expense totaled $514,000,000 up $21,000,000 or 4% from the prior year. Higher expenses were largely from higher compensation costs and higher travel and marketing costs related to our regional platform expansion partly offset by lower sub advisory fees related to lower performance fees generated during the year. Turning to adjusted EBITDA. Adjusted EBITDA margin, Adjusted EBITDA of the quarter was $53,400,000 decreased $24,000,000 or 31% from the same quarter last year. For the full year, our adjusted EBITDA was $196,000,000 down $10,000,000 or 5%. Reflecting the impact of lower performance fees in public markets.

Adjusted EBITDA margin was 29% for the quarter, and for the year adjusted EBITDA margin was 28.4% down from 30% in the prior year. We note that excluding the impact of performance fees from total revenues, and performance fee related expenses, full year adjusted EBITDA increased three our margin was comparable from the prior year. Now looking at earnings. On an adjusted basis, net earnings were $23,000,000 or $21 per share diluted for the quarter. Down from $50,000,000 or $0.37 per share in the same quarter last year. Largely reflecting lower performance fees and the impact of foreign exchange revaluation had on balance sheet items. For the year, adjusted net earnings were 103,000,000 down 19% from $126,000,000 for the prior year And on a fully diluted per share basis, adjusted net earnings were $0.94 down 6% on the dollar in the prior year. Turning to our financial leverage. Net debt was $651,000,000 at the end of the quarter. Up approximately $47,000,000 from the same period last year, but down $4,000,000 from the prior quarter. Our net debt ratio increased to 3.3x from 2.9x from the prior year, and increased from just under three times in the prior quarter. Year over year increase in net debt was primarily driven by negative impact from depreciation in the Canadian dollar through the year, the settlement of share based compensation and cash, the repurchase shares via our NCIB.

Funded debt ratio as defined your credit facility increased marginally to 3.06 from 2.93 times in the prior quarter. Our last twelve months free cash flow of $87,000,000 is down slightly by $2,000,000 from the same period last year, decrease was due to marginally lower cash from operating The timing of these payments being the main contributing factor, as year over year interest expense was relatively flat. We remain committed to delivering value to our shareholders as a fundamental pillar of our strategy. We repurchased approximately 770,000 shares during the year for total consideration of $6,100,000 Lastly, the Board has declared quarterly dividend of $0.216 per share payable on 04/10/2025, to shareholders of record on 03/10/2025. Now turn the call back to Jean Guy for his closing remarks. Thank you, Lucas. Looking forward, to the rest of 2025, the global economy and financial markets are facing increased uncertainty stemming from political agendas and policy implementation from The U. S. We saw risk appetite deteriorate significantly Following The U. S. Threat to impose tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China. With investors flocking to the safety of bonds, the U. S. Dollar and gold. These developments have the potential to inject volatility across global equity markets and non U. S. Dollar currencies such as the Canadian dollar.

The risk reward trade off is not currently attractive for traditional stocks and bonds. This volatile backdrop highlights the case for non traditional sources of income such as private credit and real assets. Given their stable return profile, low volatility and diversification benefits. With inflation set to remain higher than it's been for the past several decades, Real assets will play a critical role. In protecting purchasing power farmland and agricultural commodities generate value in real term as prices rise and our global agricultural fund is poised to benefit with minimal exposure to countries targeted by tariffs. Infrastructure has the potential. To yield predictable cash flows, that are uncorrelated to the economic cycle, with contracts that frequently include built in protections against inflation. And finally, real estate which has long been considered a good hedge against inflation is set for a recovery in the coming years as interest rates are post. Poised to decline, The depth and breadth of Fiera's investment offering provides a unique opportunity for our clients and provides us with a diverse revenue stream during times of financial markets uncertainty. With the drag of significant pinestone related outflows largely behind us. We expect to return to a sustainable level of organic net inflows leveraging the strength of our regionalized regionalized distribution model.

So I will now turn the call back to the operator for the question period. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please let the handset before pressing any keys. And your first question comes from Gary Ho from Desjardins Capital Markets.

Thanks and good morning. Jean, thanks for your comments, especially kind of the latter. Comments that you're seeing in the market more recently. And I think you mentioned private credit and real assets, agriculture, etcetera. Are you seeing increased interest from clients wanting to put capital into these strategies and how quickly can you deploy these into those asset class [indiscernible] Would like to hear some comments from yourself and or John.

I'll answer it. I'll turn it on to Max because he sees a lot of that in the division. We're seeing a lot of interest and increased activity On The U. S. Side, in our especially in our agricultural fund, As a result of two new Consultant organizations. Putting our ag strategy on their buy list. [indiscernible] we are already seeing a significant impact from that as you know, it's it's very often the door to a successful distribution So that's quite encouraging to see that. But overall, we are seeing a lot of activity on the Ag Fund We're seeing a lot of activity on our credit funds. And these days especially the corporate credit one where we're continuing to raise significant amount of money in our Fund seven and we have some very significant and interesting prospects from a couple of insurance companies that have seriously looking at investing in the fund And we're also seeing quite a bit of activity on the real estate side. Because as you know, our two I'd say, leading real estate strategies, which is the core and the industrial fund, are rated perform number one and number two. In the competitive or in the survey of our competitors.

So maybe Max, you can add to what I just said. Yes. So just to add to this, yes, so the consulting community is really important in our ability to introduce private market solutions. As Jean Guy mentioned, we are seeing a positive momentum in reviewing the agriculture. Which is not a new asset class, but it's sort of less understood asset class. We have probably one of the best fund worldwide. So we have something very interesting to offer to the market. But we're seeing a pickup on the consulting side and that triggers immediate interest from the client base. So this is real activity not only here in Canada, but in important markets like The U. S. And also the EMEA market. On the corporate side, as Jonghy mentioned, our corporate credits side, we are a finalist in a number of tickets and then we are unfolding a very effective cross sell initiative across our existing client book of business to introduce private markets generally. So that's the a key composition of your success and having estate and some of our strategy being some of the best is very important. And again, the searches. So we're seeing a good pipeline.

Which should result in positive flows in the next few quarters. Okay, great. Thanks for that. And then my second question performance fee delta in Q4 this year versus 2023.

So that's roughly $28,000,000 $29,000,000 So maybe two part question perhaps for Lucas.

One, what was the cash flow impact of the $28,000,000 $29,000,000 dollars park if we kind of back out compensation related expenses?

And then two, if we look at Slide 22 where you show your LTM free cash flow of $87,000,000 for Q4 'twenty four LTM. Remind me that still includes last year's performance fees and not 2024. Just wanted to see if you can confirm this. Yes. Thanks, Gary. That's a great question.

Let me break that down for you. I guess to your first part, sort of the expense ratio on those fees in particular, yes, your assumption is correct. So 50% is a good number. When you get into the cash flow, however, there's a couple of intricacies that sort of we need to recognize that the quarter in which the performance fee is earned it helps your operating cash flow before working cap.

It's a drag on your working cap from the perspective up until the time that you collect the performance fee. So as you'll recall, last year actually we had a pretty significant drag on free cash flow and that's because of the drag on the working cap that we had. So that fifty-fifty doesn't apply to the cash flow statement. And so while it's true on the face from an EBITDA perspective, there's a mechanic there that happens with the cash flow that separates the timing. I think at the heart of your question is sort of where is free cash flow going. And right now, I can tell you that we're predicting to have Q1 be in line with where we were in Q4. And not suffer a decrease the way we saw last year. As I say, the timing of the collection of those performance fees and other fees in Q1 of last year caused some distortion. [indiscernible] a final point, why wouldn't because that's an LTM number, why wouldn't that 87 decrease? Is it maybe a Q2 event then?

No, because what happens is yes, while we had a lower year relative to performance fees, keep in mind that our base management fees are up almost $20,000,000 going into the year. And so we're entering into the first quarter of twenty twenty five with that base management fee increment and that AUM rolling into the first quarter.

As long as markets keep up the way they have so far, And that actually even factors in the Pinestone outflow to Canoe, which we're already expecting. As I say, we're targeting to be on par in the first quarter with free cash flow. Okay. That's helpful. Thanks. Are my questions. And your next question comes from Graeme Ryding from TD.

Please go ahead. Good morning.

Maybe just a little bit color or commentary around the flows. In the quarter Thought the commentary coming out of last quarter was the pipeline looked pretty good looking into Q4.

Just wondering there some outflows that surfaced in the quarter that were maybe a surprise or were there any mandates that maybe got pushed into Q1 it's a timing issue.

Yes.

I think it's a well, I mean, it's combination of all the above.

I think we got Q4 Fiera to surprise on one of the outflow And I think and again, that's just a matter expectation, but some of the pipeline was transferred in Q1, of which we're currently tracking favorably. So So Q4 sometimes things are little tough to sign up. So the strong pipeline was transferred over the next quarter and OR should be on the second quarter as the worst. But first half of You should see some of that pipeline materialize And on the negative contribution, which was really the offset there, we had some rebalancings and fixed income again, particularly in LDI. Again, while we had new mandates positive of $1,200,000,000 for the quarter, It was really the negative net contributions of negative $2,500,000,000 that hurt us.

Okay. All right. Understood. It's helpful. Share based comp, can you just reiterate or flush out what drove the elevation this quarter and what's a reasonable run rate? Yes. So we had a couple of plans that we accelerated this year just by virtue of shifting structure going into 2025. So that easily contributed about $4,000,000 to that number. And then on top of that, we had an extra $2,000,000 increment, which was really based on sort of the valuation So when we calculate our share based compensation, sort of we take the price of the share at the December. Which was at a pretty good level certainly compared to where we are today. That added about $2,000,000 of pressure to the calculation of share based comp.

I would say that for the year, good run rates going into next year would be about $20,000,000 As you'll recall, this year, we had very low share based compensation factoring in $4,000,000 to $5,000,000 per quarter is a good direction to take.

Okay. That's it for me. Thank you.

And your next question comes from Jamie Gloyn from National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning.

Sorry if I missed this in the prepared remarks, but just wanted to get your perspectives on the leverage ratio taking higher this quarter to 3.33. And if I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, but the bank covenant is 3.5%.

So correct me if I'm wrong on that. And then just some thoughts around how you're thinking through leverage for the coming year?

Yes. So the 3.3 is the overall net debt ratio by the bank coverage ratio we were under 3.1 and that's the one to compare to the 3.5 And quarter over quarter, the actual amount of debt was consistent. Why you're seeing an uptick in the ratio is actually what happens is, as you're calculating the ratio, we're now going into a lower revenue quarter compared to fourth quarter of last year. That's effectively impacting the EBITDA in your calculation, but it hasn't changed the denominator and the numerator in the calculation, if you will, in terms of the debt. So that's why you're seeing the uptick quarter over quarter, but the absolute level of debt is consistent from Q3. I mean in terms of how we're thinking about it going forward, I think was your last question. So depending on working capital needs for the next two quarters, Again, as you know, our first two quarters of the year are usually always our heaviest. First quarter with regards to benefit charges, second quarter with regards to the two dividend payments need to be made So while we could see an uptick again in the next couple of quarters, we always expect in the third or fourth quarter of the year.

Okay. Okay. So still comfortable with the level today and not expecting anything to shift that view is my takeaway there.

Correct.

Yes. So the next question is just I mean, you're speaking, I hear the confidence in the tone around Pinestone. That it It'll be $1,000,000,000 sort of this year and I guess maybe annually for a couple of years. You provided some color around that and I think I got tripped up on some of the numbers that you guys Fiera providing. But Maybe if you can kind of flush that out where it sounded like you still have several mandates that are $1,000,000,000 in size or roughly around $1,000,000,000 What gives you confidence that You're not going to see one of these mandates looked to take their AUM to Pinestone at some point in 2025 or even a couple in 2026 or something along those lines. Just wanted get more confidence from you guys on that just given the tone that you're presenting? [indiscernible] I'll take some of it and maybe Lucas you can either correct me or add to it. Since over the last three years when the leakage started, which is 2022, 2023, 2024, 85% of the leakage that went to Pinestone are intermediaries. And we can easily understand why. It's I don't have to go through it, but I think it's a low fee business.

And that requires a lot of I'd say, time, effort and service from the manager doing roadshows and all that stuff. Because they're all intermixed areas. It's all mutual fund stuff being distributed to the retail market. [indiscernible] The rest 15% has been institutional clients. If you exclude intermediaries, there's been very little leakage from institutional clients. And without going through it, we have good reasons to to explain for that. It has to do with the fact that many of the clients who are still with us we do more than one investment strategy with them. So the relationship is much broader than just the Pinestone relationship. And also because they obviously seem to be quite comfortable and satisfied with the value added that we bring to the relationship over and above the portfolio management expertise that points Stone offers to the client through us. So there's been a pretty much high degree of stability from our non intermediary clients over the last three years. And intermediary clients, there's one left. With whom we have a very, very solid [indiscernible] That is not considering leaking to Panason. Other than that, there's none.

So looking at our experience of the last three years, plus a number of other variables that I don't think need to be mentioned here, We are pretty optimistic that the level of leakage Growing into 2026 because this year we already were impacted by Canoe this year. 5.5. So if you look at it post Canoe, it's starting next month. We expect that the pace of leakage, the rate at which leakage will occur will be significantly lower based on our experience of the last three years as it relates to non intermediary clients which I think is a reasonable assumption to make at this stage. So we're always ready for the bad surprise. But we're also at the same time optimistic that the worst is well behind us there. Lucas, you want to add something to that?

I'll go back in the transcript and catch some of the data points you shared earlier on. Okay. I think that's good for me. Thanks guys.

There are no further questions at this time.

We have one more question from Jamie Gloyn from National Bank. Please go ahead.

Yes. Sorry, I thought I would turn it over, but I'll sneak one more in. Just around the regional and let's call them core net flows come through in the Q1 or potentially in H1. Are you able to share any color thus far in like so far through almost two months of the quarter? Like what has been the experience of the results thus far? Can you give us an indication or a hint as to the the strength of the [indiscernible] [indiscernible] So far.

I'll just share with you what I said to the Board going back to the beginning of 2023, where I presented to the Board and they approved the decentralization of our distribution of our distribution capabilities into a regional model [indiscernible] spent pretty much all of 2023 to put it in place. Where the last two regional leaders Maxim being one and Eric in The U. S. Who's running The U. S. One, That came in very, very late in the year and said to the Board that 2024 would be obviously a year in transition with the new four leaders on board, EMEA, U. S. Canada, And that as long as we can see the beginning of some progress, in 2024. The 2025 would be a very important year to pass judgment on whether the model is the right model, but very importantly, whether the four regional leaders were the right ones to execute and make things happen. And right now, you said after two months this year where I could have said by the somewhat the third and fourth quarter last year, I could see that the momentum was building up that the business model was doing what it was supposed to do, which is generating a lot of activity building up the pipeline and getting a lot more attention and honestly over and above that a much higher degree of professionalism and being close to market that where you're trying to distribute your strategies.

So I am quite optimistic at this stage that I have at least two of Three of my four regional leaders, I'm very, very happy with and have proven themselves enough at this stage One of them, I still believe is the right one. But is a little bit late. Against the other three, which leads us to us, me, my partners here and the Board to be quite optimistic about the results and the impact that we will be experiencing that we will be experiencing in 2025 from from that significant initiative. We invested quite a bit of money in that restructuring and moving to that regional distribution model. And in fact, where we can see the greatest immediate impact under Maxim's leadership is in our Canadian division, which is which is really doing well.

Okay. Thank you.

There are no further questions at this time. Ms. Gay, I will now turn the call back over to you. Thank you, Emily. That concludes our call today. If you'd like more information, do not hesitate to take advantage of our website, at ir.sierracapital.com Thank you for joining us. Massey. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference. You may now disconnect your