Himax Technologies, Inc. Price & Performance (HIMX)

Gross margin is expected to be around 30.5% depending on product mix. This compares to 29.3% [indiscernible] The first quarter profit attributable to shareholders is estimated to be in the range of $0.09 to $0.11 per fully diluted ADS implying a year over year increase of 26% fifty four percent We have noticed that some peers' customers [indiscernible] due to tariff factors. Especially in the consumer electronics sector, Resulting in Q1 revenue forecast. Exceeding normal seasonal demand, In contrast, no similar trend has been observed the automotive semiconductor market. Since HiMAX, Automotive business, accounts for more than half of our total revenues. Our Q1 revenues has not benefited from tariff factors. I will now turn the call over to Jordan to discuss our Q1 twenty twenty five outlook. Jordan, the floor is yours. Thank you, Eric. In 2024, our sales revenues in each quarter consistently outperformed guidance For this strong performance, is certainly commendable, the challenges We faced such as limited market visibility and conservative customer demand for our many customers [indiscernible] to address their actual demands. For the other hand, rush orders are indicative of the tight inventory position of our panel customers in general. The past few quarters, we have consistently demonstrated our ability to handle most of such rush orders.

Underscoring our agility adaptability strong capabilities, in inventory management, [indiscernible] responsiveness. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] In 2024. Accounting for almost [indiscernible] Achieving close to 20% annual growth. This performance [indiscernible] automotive leadership in technological innovations product development, and market share. Looking ahead, we expect our automotive DDDI and TCAR technologies to maintain growth momentum. Our market competitiveness, Beyond the OCD technology, Hyramax is advancing development in the automotive OLED sector. With similar projects currently underway, in partnership with leading panel makers, We anticipate [indiscernible] automotive OLED IC. As one of the key growth drivers for Himax. The coming years. [indiscernible] leadership [indiscernible] display market. Meanwhile, Himax's activity is spending its technology development beyond display IPs. To that end, in the WiSA AI segment, we have made notable progress with the notable brands and achieved significant breakthroughs in smartphone lock authentication. And small home educations. Collaborating with world leading customers to develop new innovations. We anticipate a strong growth trajectory in our Wi Fi business. In twenty twenty five, [indiscernible] Hi, my proprietary revenue optics or W O Penthouse. [indiscernible] Or CTO, has recently [indiscernible] significant attention. In the techno markets In fact, as early as June, 2024, Hi, Max. A global leader in silicon photonics connectors, Jointly, announced the industry leading CTO Technology.

The proliferation spanning several years utilized [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Since the announcement we have provided updates on the latest progress in each quarterly earnings call. Hi, Max. This is WLO Technology. Plays a critical role in CTO. By providing essential optical coupling [indiscernible] a core element of the solution. CTO significantly enhanced its bandwidth as accelerates data transmission. While reducing signal loss latency and power consumption. Additionally, it can help drastically decreased the size of NPL [indiscernible] [indiscernible] with customers' mass production timelines are disclosed and the recent AI market disruption. From TIPSIC The prospect of CTO unchanged. The widespread adoption of CPO for data transmission to be conducted via optics. Instead of megawatt. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] This is evident by the significant increase customers' recent Trippadasha volume forecast. Indicating an accelerated timeline for CTO's analysis. To enter mass production. Furthermore, [indiscernible] in close collaboration with DG AI customers and partners our activity developing future generations, of CTO technologies to meet [indiscernible] high speed optical data suspension in SPC and AI Sue, WOO at CTO Technologies.

Himax is well positioned to encased in the high speed AI computing market with high expectations [indiscernible] We believe that Cipio de Caracci beyond core applications, we'll see further adoption in sectors such as automotive, in future. Our current goal is to accelerate CTO adoption in cloud applications thereby helping drive broader CPU adoption. In AI applications. At CES this year, Himax showcased a wide range of innovative including automotive display technology, Wi Fi AI, and Advanced Optical Technologies for ARVR. [indiscernible] a clear trend at ECS as the industry demonstrated, strong enthusiasm [indiscernible] Buy more companies entering the space [indiscernible] generative AI to accelerate the development of flying to weight [indiscernible] is also AI glasses. [indiscernible] Hymegas offers three optical technologies, [indiscernible] and natural power Wi Fi AI our latest patented front linear cosmango display delivers unparalleled [indiscernible] with the industry leading four decade niche, exceptional optical power efficiency, compact or vector. [indiscernible] and superior display quality Macanid, one of the most viable solutions. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] In web guide, in collaboration with leading tech plans, [indiscernible] Proprietary WL expertise build of advanced [indiscernible] to offer industry leading optical solutions that optimize line transmission [indiscernible] In the field of AI sensitive for air glasses, [indiscernible] Provides always only assets and connectivity which are being applied by developers to significantly [indiscernible] While consuming just a few milliwatts of power. [indiscernible] we unveiled the industry's most comprehensive LCP and OLED solutions at CES.

Showcasing a range of next generation smart cabinet technologies. These solutions now need proof the intuitive operation of smart cabins but also enhanced driving safety. And provide an exceptional user experience. The prime example is the advanced display HMI solution. Developed in collaboration with AUL, [indiscernible] for large size high resolution and three, four automotive At CES, HIMSS also partnered with several AI ecosystem partners to showcase its ultra low power Wi Fi modules. Over a range innovative [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] applications include [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Baby cry detection, people flow management, and human sensing detection. The modules are designed for easy integration. Making it highly suitable for various AOP applications. With that, I will now begin with an update on the large panel trial of IP business. In Q1, we anticipate single digit sequential sales increase for large display driveline seats, driven by demand [indiscernible] Chinese government subsidies, for household appliances is a sluggish household sector. Notebook and monitor sales are expected to increase in Q1 contrast, PVAC sales are set to decline as customers move forward their inventory purchases. In the prior quarter. Coupled [indiscernible] in Q1 Looking ahead in the normal sector, we are seeing an increase in demand for premium notebooks OLED displays and touch features partially fueled by the rise of AITC.

Hi, Max. It's well positioned. To capitalize on this trend offering comprehensive range of ICs [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Including DDIC touch controllers and TDDI. The Spendout innovation is our pioneering in sale custody DI.

Which improved of system of system design equation. By invading the touch controller within the TVI chip while maintaining the conventional display driver setup for Ticant data transmission This design simplifies the integration for customers. Reducing engineering complexity and speeding up product development. Solution also supports high resolution displays up to four ks and larger screens up to 16 inches aligning with the growing demand for advanced visual planning [indiscernible] With smart production already underway for AMD notebook vendors and RPC, More projects are lined up in addition [indiscernible] We are also developing on sale touch controller technology with multiple projects underway, with power panel makers and notebook vendors. Last but not least, progress has been made on the next generation EDP1.5 [indiscernible] For TCAR [indiscernible] This interface will support high current rates low power consumption, adaptive sync, and high resolution key features essential for next generation AI PCs. By delivering innovative [indiscernible] [indiscernible] to lead in the rapidly evolving landscape, for YIPC. [indiscernible] Turning to the small and medium sized display driver IC pieces. For the full year 2024, our automotive driver ID sales [indiscernible] at traditional TDIC increased nearly 20% year over year.

Outpacing global automotive growth. [indiscernible] driven by the continued adoption of [indiscernible] Among major customers. [indiscernible] all card events. However, we anticipate Q1 automotive revenue to be decline low teens sequentially. Following two quarters of surge demand, Despite this, Q1 automotive sales are still projected to increase by mid teens.

On year over year basis. In the automotive TDDI sector, with cumulative shipments, significantly surpassing those [indiscernible] We continue to reinforce our market leadership. Which currently stands We're over 50%.

We're still in the final design project. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] of new pipeline and design wins across the board. Of which 30%. Already mass production. We expect to sustain this business growth in the years ahead. [indiscernible] for 2024 declined due to their [indiscernible] partial replacement. Myculine still saw a modest increase. In the last year this demonstrates the steady demand for mature DDIC products used new customer displays HVBs, and rear and side view mirrors. Which not require touch functionality. Furthermore, the long term trust and loyalty from our DDIC customers some of whom have relied on our solutions. For over a decade. It's indicative of our strong customer retention. We continue to lead the automotive DDIC market maintaining the global market share of approximately 40%. Himax continues to lead in automotive display ID innovation. By pioneering solutions that deliver superior performance quality features, an enhanced user experiences. As part of this ongoing innovation, our latest TED [indiscernible] [indiscernible] With local BMT CAR. Into a single chip, provides a cost effective and comprehensive solution for our customers. Another new technology [indiscernible] is our automotive TDI, which advanced [indiscernible] Which differentiates between driver and passenger touchscapes to prevent cross touch [indiscernible] In addition, we offer a unique not on in sale display solution.

That confines a difficult profit [indiscernible] This design seamlessly [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Offering drivers a safer more intuitive that reduces [indiscernible] and enhances the overall driver experience. Moving to smartphone and tablet IT sales. We expect a sequential decline in both product lines. Is typical during the long season of Q1, Q2, Next, for an update on our OLED business. In the automotive OLED market, we have established strategic partnerships see in panel makers in Korea China and Japan. [indiscernible] beyond premium car models. Himax is well positioned as the preferred partner Naviition our strong presence and proven track record in the automotive LED space sector Capalizing on our first mover advantage, we aim to drive growing adoption of OLED in automotive displays by offering a comprehensive range of solutions, including DDIC, TCAN, and non touch on sale touch controller this positions us as a primary beneficiary of the anticipated shift [indiscernible] OLED displays for high end vehicles in a couple of years, enabling us to capture new growth opportunities. And further strengthen our market leadership. Beyond the automotive sector, we have also met strides in the tablet at notebook markets. Partnering meeting all the panel makers in Korea and China.

Our comprehensive audit product portfolio [indiscernible] TCAM and touch controllers [indiscernible] driven several new projects that are on track. To begin mass production this year. [indiscernible] In the smartphone, OLED market, we are making solid progress. In our collaborations with customers in Korea and China. We anticipate manufacturing to start later First quarter small and medium sized display driver ICPC is expected to decline low teens sequentially. I would like to now turn to our non driver IT business update. Where we expect the first quarter revenue to decrease high teens sequentially First, full update on our Techem business.

We anticipate Q1 3Q 'nineteen sales to increase maintain sequential primarily due to the lower recurrence a one time ASIC Techem shipment to a leading projector customer last year. It's worth moderation in automotive TIGA shipments. Following several quarters of strong growth. That being said, Hi, Mike. And unchallenged position in Double Diamond Tea Cup evidence by growing validation and widespread adoption. In post premium and mainstream car models We are confident in the continued growth of our automotive key ambitions supported by our strong market presence, [indiscernible] with strong pipelines of over 200 Hizhoui projects set to gradually in the coming years. [indiscernible] is another field getting traction with the automotive displays. Driving increased adoption [indiscernible] [indiscernible] as particularly [indiscernible] [indiscernible] provides distinct advancements with high contrast ratio and optimized power consumption, [indiscernible] it remains so called post COVID-nineteen offset CEVSU leads caused by Pekka IDH typical of traditional conventional TFT LCD panels. Ensuring clear and precise images on the windshield. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] To prevent the display from obstructing the [indiscernible] Thereby ensuring Charla's Several SUV projects are already in progress And we are excited about the potential opportunities ahead We are well positioned for continuous growth in automotive TCAT, over the next few years.

Switching gears to the YMZI ultra low power AI sensing solution. The continuous endpoint AI integration, featuring industry leading ultra low power AI processor. Always known SimoSimitensive. And CNN based AI algorithm. [indiscernible] A significant competitive edge.

In a rapidly growing AI market. Sri Lanka's ultra low power consumption, and context aware home device AI differenc. Not seamlessly integrates vision and other sensing capabilities in two endpoints applications. [indiscernible] battery powered [indiscernible] [indiscernible] user interaction. But also makes AI more critical and excessive Additionally, once the AI offloads [indiscernible] from the main processor. Effectively extending battery life span and improving overall data processing efficiency. Building on the success with Dell notebooks, [indiscernible] is continuing to expand its market presence with additional use cases across other [indiscernible] Some of which [indiscernible] for production later this year. Also continues to achieve significant market success across various sectors. For smart door lock, we collaborated enabling high end brand in China to introduce the world's [indiscernible] With 20 fourseven century monetary and real time event recorded. Building on this achievement, we are expanding globally by collaborating with other leading door lock makers to integrate innovative AI vision including [indiscernible] and PUNDWEEN biometriosis. Further extending applications. Several of these value added solutions. Are set to enter production At CES twenty twenty five, Himax joined forces ecosystem partners to unveil a suite of innovative production ready IoT applications. Power, by our tiny phone feature, [indiscernible] HighMAX offers a series of modules which incorporated [indiscernible] AI processor. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] no code, slash no code. [indiscernible] Simplifying AI integration.

And supporting diverse use cases. Such as [indiscernible] Gender and Age Recognition, [indiscernible] [indiscernible] voice command, [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Post [indiscernible] And people flow management. [indiscernible] and reducing development costs, YSI modules [indiscernible] for automation. Enhanced interactivity and elevate user experiences a variety of industries. A broad range of innovative [indiscernible] are also under development. In collaboration with ecosystem partners. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] dynamic gesture recognition and human among others. One standout is our Wi Fi module portfolio. [indiscernible] Which has quickly gained traction since its introduction. Just a year ago, we have secured multiple design wins with smart production already underway. By The U. S. Customer for smart access [indiscernible] And the tailoring space the Taiwan based outlook [indiscernible] [indiscernible] To make a growing customer demand, [indiscernible] across various environments. We upgraded Wi Fi content suite now features by model authentication. Combining both PowerVAN and face recognitions. [indiscernible] Enhances [indiscernible] By offering two layers of biometric verification, which now increased its reliability but also makes it highly adaptable. To various environments. [indiscernible] marks a significant shift in Q1 machine interaction. Enabling devices perceive process, and respond to their surroundings in real time. The key emerging trend is the integration of cloud based which enables this agent's advanced and language understanding.

Enhancing their ability to interact with and attack to the physical Hi, Mezuo Sai AI. Is at the forefront Within O and S centrifuge Sensor Fusion ultra low power, device process While I'm seeing this, the Interfacing with ARLOMs. To provide the essential real time capabilities. For natural urgent applications The consolidation of this innovation. Was showcased at CES twenty twenty five. For a high mix and seed steamed eel, introduced [indiscernible] [indiscernible] equipped with vision, and audio sensor fusion. Mr. Speaker. Inspection powered IoT device. Combines [indiscernible] With cloud based AROM to interpret In terms of comments, recognized objects, respond to events, and facilitate real time interaction. Drawing from the success of Sensate Bossier, we are actively working on multiple projects leveraging Huazza AI, to further drive the fast pace. UVs collieraging, applications. Separately, are excited about our collaboration with a leading AR player. To integrate into the next generation of AI glasses. As I mentioned earlier, SCES there was a review enthusiasm [indiscernible] with AI, becoming an integral component to enhance intuitive and seamless Himax device Once I addressed this, two critical challenges in the air glasses, real time responsiveness, and power efficient For example, Wi Fi supports OSR our [indiscernible] to detect and analyze the surrounding environment [indiscernible] This capability powers [indiscernible] Real time objects recognition, navigation assistance, Sensation and environmental experience, [indiscernible] WiTAR AI's exceptional auto power consumption measured in single digit Also, maybe perfectly [indiscernible] four day work.

Another example, we collaborate with CamZin or eyeball tracking technology, powered by Wi Fi, precisely detects subtle eyeball movements gaze detection, pupil size, and blanket [indiscernible] for the enhancement of user interaction in air glasses. In June 2024, Himax, in partnership with ForeSee, the world leader in silicon photonics connector, co packaged optics CTO [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] silicon for connect chips, and optical connectors within MCM. Replacing traditional megahertz transmission. With high speed optical communication. The technology significantly enhances boost data transmission rates [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Lowers power consumption, and significantly minimizes the size and cost of NCL In working closely with Faucet, we are making significant strides through a solid partnership with leading AI semiconductor companies, [indiscernible] With small scale of the first generation CPL solution. Already As mentioned earlier, the significant increase in dual engineering validation and trial production combined with the anticipated sample volume increases in the coming quarters. It's a strong indication [indiscernible] is being accelerated towards mass production. In addition, in close collaboration, with Vision AI customers, We are speeding up the development [indiscernible] for the next few generations, We are more optimistic about the outlook for our LARI offices.

Which is [indiscernible] to generate significant growth opportunities. [indiscernible] profit contributor in the years [indiscernible] the CTO progress, we are witnessing a rise engineering collaborations global technology leaders who are utilizing our WLO expertise advanced [indiscernible] highlighting the growing regulation. Of our WLO capabilities. For an update on Aerocost, [indiscernible] our industry leading 400 ks niche ultra luminous from the illcoated vinyl display setting a new benchmark. [indiscernible] with extremely low power consumption of nearly 300,000,000 watts. CES twenty twenty five. We show haste [indiscernible] POC for commercial concept. Featuring the micro display, with a third party webcast, achieving over 1,000 needs [indiscernible] This demonstration highlighted suitability for outdoor [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] 0.98 grams.

And ultra compact [indiscernible] Of less than 0.56 C. Combined with excellent color performance, Hi Max's Himax video cosmango displays is ideal for all day air process and underscores technology's readiness. For real world [indiscernible] Following the recent release, of our 400 ks Mitsubishi ultra luminous from the cosmango display. We are actively [indiscernible] in significant projects through strategic collaborations with industry leaders [indiscernible] of over a decade. [indiscernible] coupled with a history of successful production shipments. Highlights our readiness to meet the demands of large scale production of AI glasses. That concludes my report for this quarter. Thank you for your interest in Timex. We appreciate you joining today's call. And are now ready to take Yes.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. You can also submit questions through the webcast.

Of the screen.

Thank you. [indiscernible] Thank you. Now we'll have our first question Johnny Tan Nomura.

Go ahead please. Thank you, Jordan and Eric for taking my question. My first question is regarding to CPO. Because maybe in the past few months, some investors were asking about whether the CPO our CPO is firstly adopted by scale up or scale up scale out or scale up server systems. So wondering if you could kindly elaborate more there.

And also you mentioned about there has been already some small scale And could you give us some updates on when should we see more sizable mass production scale in the coming years. And also, could you update a little bit on the competition landscape there? Is like how we are positioned right now compared with the multiple peers? This is my first question. Thank you. Thank you, Tommy.

I'll try to not an easy question. I'll try to address question perhaps from Slide three.

Different angle, but I think I mean understandably you guys are the one issue you guys are really [indiscernible] exactly how much contribution this will be for Himax. In the foreseeable future and even in the long term. Right? I assume that it's Basically, the essence of your question. As I just mentioned, this year, 2025 will be a year for engineering Medication, with only sample shipments for us. So while the sample shipment will accelerate quarter by quarter, the revenue contribution will be rather limited. If you compare that The fourth quarter, which presumably will this year. The revenue is set to be millions of dollars based on current forecast. But again, it's still quite small compared to our total size and things can still change. It is still early. Now in all likelihood, mass production will commence in 2026. But we don't know how and certainly we won't comment on exactly when. In 2026, It's probably still more than a year from now. There are still many unknowns like how many customers, how many projects or their revenue curve, etcetera. And therefore, while 2026 is likely to be the first year of [indiscernible] It is still early and it's still difficult to give a revenue indication for the year.

At this point, Now if we look further ahead [indiscernible] like ignore the exact timing and ramping curve, etcetera, for the time being. Right. And let's just try to kind of kind of picture for an I would call it annualized potential revenue for Himax. Annualized potential revenue. Or HEMEX because the first year production could be just a quarter. Or whatever, right? I don't know. [indiscernible] just try to annualize it, Right.

And analyze the potential revenue for Hamed Xu and the CPO business reaches poly coal and early stage of mass production. [indiscernible] Right. So maybe that is how I can try to give you a preliminary indication. The reason why I say early stage of mass production is because I believe the the ultimate demand for CPO is probably above and beyond anything we can measure at this point. So by early stage, I'm thinking probably in the first couple of years, when the industry is perhaps still testing the water with maybe only premium models. [indiscernible] with CPO In making the assessment, have considered leading AI customers total advanced GPU shipment outlook for which you guys have provided a box, right? [indiscernible] Which is very much a public information. And we have assumed a very low percentage of CPO attach rate. For both right. So when I say early stage Early stage of mass production is what I mean, right? The test rate for pulp is still very, very low percentage wise. So with such conservative assumptions, I can say that our annualized CPO revenue Guastille, switch hundreds of millions of dollars when we get there. Again, this is early stage and This is the best I can do in terms of providing a revenue indication.

So to me, this is not really a question of whether or even when it will happen because it will definitely happen in our view. But rather how fast the CPU technology will penetrate While we believe [indiscernible] obvious benefits like raising transmission bandwidth and lower power consumption. Very low cost The CPU technology has the potential of ramping because of all these benefits. The potential of Remi quickly. However, at the end of the day, that is still a decision to be made by our customers.

So all we can do is to get ourselves well prepared to meet any customer demand. Or ramping plan. And that's exactly what we'll do. I don't know if that answers your question, Donnie.

Yes. Thank you, Jordan, for sharing this variable information. Yes, but just maybe I'm wondering maybe if we talk about maybe 2026, do think that CPO is mainly used for the on rec switches or it can be directly used for the connection between GPUs and GPUs. Again, we are so upstream. We are probably not the person the best person to answer such questions. However, as far as we we are told [indiscernible] And that is going to account for the bulk of the volume. In early stage. That's how we're told. Although again, you're probably not asking the right person. Because at the end of the day, that is our I mean, all we provide is We also know as we I mentioned in my prepared remarks, right, in addition to clarification, we believe eventually also has great potential for things like automotive robot I mean, when it comes to very consumer products, CPU technology is low cost compared to loan applications. Are talking about like notebook or smartphone. It is still relatively high cost, right? So I don't know about those potentials. [indiscernible] those in our assessment. I'm not even counting automotive or or robot or whatever.

I'm just saying, in a long time, we believe those are also good areas. To use CPL.

However, so I want to emphasize in our assessment, we are only counting qualification. We are only assuming [indiscernible] low attach rate for those for the cloud application only. And that can easily result in hundreds of millions of annual sales for us. Back to you, Tommy. Thank you, Suresh.

My second question is related to The core driver IT business. So for multi driver IC, we would expect to be sequentially declining into the first quarter as you just guided. Our founder is Steve, it is just like the previous quarters that customers have some normal inventory adjustment or order adjustment or is there anything change in terms of the competition landscape? And looks like gross margin in the first quarter remains at similar level in fourth quarter but with lower sales contribution from automotive. So do we have better product mix in the first quarter? First, that's fourth quarter or there are other reasons behind that gross margin can still hang over there similarly as fourth quarter? Thank you. Right. So basically two questions. The first question is about Q1 outlook. The sales. I think the sequential decline really just reflects the seasonal factor, the Lunar New Year. Low holidays. If you take that into consideration, if you compare this [indiscernible] any other previous years. I think this is not necessarily a [indiscernible] first quarter for us. I mean, again, in our very much We mentioned that we know this several peers their customers are giving them point orders because of tariff considerations, right?

We are not seeing the same in automotive I guess for a variety of reasons, I won't I don't want to comment exactly on the reasons, but because I truly don't know exactly in detail, but mean, we have certainly checked with our customers and that's the feedback we get from them. I mean, we are normal level of orders without customers considering [indiscernible] [indiscernible] For the approving orders. For Q1. So I think the sequential decline is just a fair reflection of of the Chinese New Year holidays. Also I said Quite specifically in our prepared remarks, we believe across the automotive display IC ecosystem, the inventory level is quite deep. Right? So that is definitely good news.

For us as we look forward to the whole year's outlook. And you also mentioned gross margin Yes, it is a result of of [indiscernible] specifically we are seeing DDIC remains quite strong. Although PDDI Again, I mean, it's just one single quarter phenomenon I'm not sure I should speculate on the reasons or comment on the change of direction in both product areas just for a single quarter. So I don't see anything unusual there. Just that it just happens that [indiscernible] is going to be up slightly volatility will be down slightly. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Is going to remain about flat [indiscernible] Thank you.

Thank you. A few questions from online Q and A box. They are reading through that they are all related to automotive So if I may, quickly repeat questions. No no obvious difference there. I mean, given our market share, We had to do [indiscernible] In fact, for the so called non Chinese cars, we are talking about Europe, USA, Japan, Korea, all these major car markets our I would say it's quite evenly spread across all major markets. Although Chinese customers are tend to be more aggressive in terms of bringing our newest technology to mass production. Which is a clear trend we are observing Other than that, in terms of market share, we don't see a significant difference between Chinese and non Chinese. Top three automotive customers area, their respective revenue [indiscernible] Our direct customers, our paying customers, our panel makers, And And we also get to a lesser extent because of touch business. We also get some businesses from [indiscernible] much lesser extent from POS And we don't really get the revenues. From [indiscernible] and customers. Right. So [indiscernible] So in this regard, if you ask me the top three automotive customers, they are obvious customers with LCD makers with the biggest capacity.

So I don't want to name their names right now, but it's It's probably not too difficult to guess. They are They are major percentage of the remaining 70% of auto TCF design wins. Noosa has not yet entered the expected to appear in 2025, not necessarily.

Typically, we have [indiscernible] be a bidding process or customer will just grant us the design we But anyway, at some point, there will be the official kickoff analysis we define it as beside wood, right, is the official kickoff typically evolving Tier one right. So it is panel makers equipped with our ICs from one into Tier 1s. And when Tier one get their inquiries, or from OEMs.

And they make a decision which panel to use and which IC to use. [indiscernible] and they finalized it they have made the final call the official design [indiscernible] gets kicked off and that's how we define design right. So when we are getting [indiscernible] approval concept. We call it design in, but they are not defined as our number of projects design. We So our project number of project design win is actually quite strict.

And so from design win, meaning project kick off to mass production, It varies Quite a lot.

Depending on how whether it's a very good mature technology or it's very, very new technology.

Although it depends on the type of customers. And I would say indeed Chinese customers tend to be [indiscernible] With the shorter design design cycles. Compared to others. So So the time can vary from [indiscernible] very exceptional, but we have seen as far as nine months. To two point five years. Or sometimes even longer. Right. So this pipeline and then so you imagine they probably spread across almost even across this period.

Between one year to two plus years.

So 2025 will only be a portion of it. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] Question, are you working with one or multiple CPO customers to utilize your WL solution? [indiscernible] we have made announcement with Horsesh. So Horsesh is our clear customer. Slash partner. And While we've been approached by others, I I think this is a bit sensitive, the question to answer. I think certainly, I would just say, obviously, it's our very strong, solid and close part they are they are requested demands R and D or ramping or otherwise. Of the the highest are utmost priority to us. For the time being for foreseeable future, In fact, So I think I'll just say that without directly answering your question. I think the two of us together we should be able to pick up I mean, we are to be honest, we have seen little competition. So the the issue for us is to work together and and resolve all issues for customer and the into mass production. Making sure we have a smooth delivery and quality and whatnot. Right, rather than thinking about diversifying our customer and supplier base. [indiscernible] For for the foreseeable future.

Okay. Thank you. Then there are no questions at the moment.

Thank you.

Thank you. As a final note, Eric Li, our Chief IRP Officer, will maintains the marketing activity and continue to attend investor conferences.

We'll announce the details as they come about. Thank you and have a nice day.

Thank you, Claudine.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes fourth quarter and full year twenty twenty four earnings conference call.

We thank you and goodbye.