Lazard Ltd Price & Performance (LAZ)

Good morning everyone and welcome to Lazard's earnings call for the first quarter of twenty twenty five. I'm Alexandra Degman, Head of Investor Relations and Treasury. In addition to today's audio comments, we have posted our earnings release on our website. A replay of this call will also be available on our website later today. Before we begin, let me remind you that we may make forward looking statements about our business and performance. There are important factors that could cause our actual results, level of activity, performance, achievements or other events to differ materially from those expressed or implied by the forward looking statements including, but not limited to, those factors discussed in the company's SEC filings, you can access on our website. Lazard assumes no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of these forward looking statements and assumes no duty to update them. Today's discussion also includes certain non GAAP financial measures that we believe are meaningful when evaluating the company's performance. A reconciliation of these non GAAP financial measures to the comparable GAAP measures is provided in our earnings release investor presentation. Hosting our call today are Peter Orzag, Lazard's Chief Executive Officer and Chairman Mary Anne Vetsch, Lazard's Chief Financial Officer.

After our prepared remarks, Peter and Marianne will be joined by Evan Russo, Chief Executive Officer of Asset Management as they open up the call for questions. I'll now the call over to Peter. Thank you, Ali and thank you to everyone for joining our call. First quarter performance was solid, with results supported by a high degree of client engagement across the firm along with our diversified business model. In Financial Advisory, our global market share of announced transactions increased year over year as the momentum behind our long term strategy continues to grow. Over the past twelve months, revenue associated with private capital was over 40% of total financial advisory revenue [indiscernible] just above our prior peak. In 2021. This reflects strong market activity and our successful expansion of coverage in this area. In asset management, we saw substantial improvements in our flows for the first quarter compared to last year. In flows were driven by large wins in our strategic focus areas including our quantitative platform, Japanese equities, global equities, international quality. Even with increased gross inflows during the quarter, our one but not yet funded mandates are even higher than at the beginning of the year as sales and distribution efforts have successfully generated new During the quarter, we continued to execute our Lazard 2,030 long term strategy.

We announced a strategic alliance with Arini Capital Management expanding Lazard's connectivity to private capital across Europe. This partnership creates opportunities across both of our businesses by providing clients access to flexible financing solutions and unique investment strategies. We also announced our expansion in The Middle East opening a a financial advisory office in Abu Dhabi This office builds on our successful business in Saudi Arabia and complements our presence in Dubai. Finally, last month we launched our first active ETF product set in The U. S. The introduction of our Japanese equity equity megatrend and NextGen Technologies ETFs further expands our capability to meet investor preferences and demand. Looking ahead, while there is substantial unpredictability due to in trade policies, corporate balance sheets remain strong and the preconditions for ongoing economic growth and M and A activity are present. This includes underlying tailwinds for financial advisory activity with client opportunity driven by technology and generative AI the biotech revolution, ongoing expansion in energy demand, and efforts to de risk and reposition supply chain. Over the past month, and even with the overhang of heightened uncertainty, our backlog in Financial Advisory has continued to grow driven by activity in Europe and in restructuring, along with continued growth in M and A and financing and capital solutions.

Whether this pattern continues and how this backlog evolves in the future, will depend in part on greater certainty regarding tariffs. Overall, client engagement across both of our businesses remains robust. Let me now turn the call over to Mary Anne to discuss our financial results. Thank you, Peter. Term wide adjusted net revenue was $643,000,000 for the first quarter. Financial Advisory adjusted net revenue was $370,000,000 for the first quarter of twenty twenty five, which is 17% lower than the prior year's record first quarter revenue. Our global M and A expertise and our expanded connectivity to private capital are reflected in first quarter results. Recently announced transactions include Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals $6,700,000,000 combination with Endo Pharmaceuticals Sun Community's $5,700,000,000 sale of Harbor marinas to Blackstone Infrastructure justeattakeaway.com's €4,100,000,000 recommended public offer by process Assurance $2,100,000,000 recommended cash offer from KKR and Stone Completed transactions include CD and R's €16,000,000,000 acquisition of a controlling 50% stake in Sanofi's consumer health unit, Opella, active Evergreen's $6,700,000,000 acquisition by Novalex a portfolio company of Apollo, Siete Foods' $1,200,000,000 acquisition by PepsiCo and SocGen's €1,100,000,000 sale of its professional equipment financing business to BPCE. In addition, large corporate restructuring assignments include company roles with Altice France and Chifi, while creditor and related party roles include EmployBridge and Oregon Tool.

We also advised on several private capital markets [indiscernible] including advising Grosvenor on its sale of 25% of a portfolio of properties valued at 1,000,000,000 to Norges Bank, and Banneker Partners and Crestview Partners on continuation funds led by from Oxel KKR and Apollo S3. Respectively. Turning to Asset Management. Adjusted net revenue was $264,000,000 for the first quarter of twenty twenty five. A decrease of 4% from the prior year quarter. Our revenues reflected management fees of $256,000,000 for the first quarter, down 1% from the prior quarter. Incentive fees totaled $9,000,000 and were driven by strong performance in our credit fixed income and Japanese equities strategies. As of March 31, we reported AUM of $227,000,000,000 up slightly compared to year end and demonstrating improvements in in inflows and outflows. During the quarter, we had market appreciation of 800,000,000 foreign exchange appreciation of 3,900,000,000.0 and net outflows of 3,700,000,000.0 Average AUM for the first quarter was $231,000,000,000 one percent lower than the prior quarter. Recently won new business for Management includes an Asian sovereign wealth fund investment $400,000,000 into Global Equity Advantage, a Swiss client funding $390,000,000 into emerging markets equity advantage and China equity advantage a U. S. Public pension funding $300,000,000 into international international quality growth and a Japanese financial intermediary investing $175,000,000 into Global Equity Advantage.

Now turning to firm wide expenses. Our adjusted compensation expense was $421,000,000 for the first quarter of twenty twenty five. Resulting in a compensation ratio of 65.5% compared to six sixty six percent one year ago. Our adjusted non compensation expense was $148,000,000 for the first quarter of twenty twenty five. Resulting in a non compensation ratio of 23%. Shifting to taxes, our adjusted adjusted effective tax rate for the first quarter was negative 13.9% due to a discrete benefit related to stock compensation awards that best during the quarter. We currently expect our effective tax rate for the full year 2025 to be in the high 20% range. Turning to capital allocation. In the first quarter of twenty twenty five, we returned $175,000,000 to shareholders. Including a quarterly dividend of $81,000,000 in repurchases of common stock and $94,000,000 in satisfaction of employee tax obligations. In addition, yesterday, we declared a quarterly dividend of $0.50 per share. Now I'll turn the call back to Peter. Thank you, Mary Anne.

The current environment is highly uncertain, but Lazard has a long history of combining business insights with geopolitical context. Which is increasingly valuable to our clients. Our geopolitical advisory group is in high demand across both of our businesses. We also recently announced the addition of Patrick McHenry as Senior Advisor. Patrick's policy expertise as a congressman including as Chair of the House Financial Services Committee, further enhances our advisory capabilities. In Financial Advisory, we provide innovative ways to address a wide array of client needs, supported by investments we've made to expand and integrate our restructuring and liability [indiscernible] private capital advisory, capital solutions groups. With nearly two centuries of operating in Europe, our strong presence deep relationships and respected expertise provide us with a competitive advantage in serving those markets. We continue to actively recruit to increase our client coverage. Acres are attracted to our global reputation and brand and we achieved our objective to expand our financial advisory MD ranks with 11 net additions over the past twelve months. We also have several senior MDs joining our healthcare financial sponsors restructuring debt advisory groups in the upcoming months. In asset management, during times of market volatility, investors historically look to active asset management or solutions.

Demand for investment products outside of The United States may also expand as investors reevaluate overweight allocations to The U. S. For more balanced global exposure. With our core capabilities in global, international and emerging market strategies, this shift could benefit our platform. In addition, we plan to continue expanding our ETF offerings creating future opportunities for growth over time. Our first quarter performance demonstrates continued progress against our long term strategy and our focus on delivering excellence as a trusted advisor for our clients at all times. I'd also like to take a moment to welcome Peter Harrison to our Board of Directors, which we announced last month. And I'd like to thank Jane Mandela for her service. Jane served three terms as a Board Director and has been instrumental in guiding and strengthening Lazard for close to a decade. Now we'll open the call to questions.

Thank you very much, Mr. Orszak. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, if go first this morning to Mike Brown of Wells Fargo Securities.

Good morning.

Great. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions.

So Peter, positive commentary on the backlog that's great to hear. It sounds like it's growing in broad based. Maybe just within the backlog are you seeing a higher level than normal of M and A deals dropping out. So despite seeing the growth underneath the surface, is there some M and A deals that are actually dropping? And then do you see risk of that picking up at all?

Thank you. Sure. So look, in any normal environment, you see some deals get pushed out, some deals get accelerated. Deals go sideways. I wouldn't say that we've seen an elevated level of of that, but it there is often it bounces around from quarter to quarter. And I note, as I pointed out, that even within M and A, our backlog continues to expand I also want to immediately emphasize that the degree to which that will continue is very path dependent and depends on what happens during this ninety day window to hopefully resolve the uncertainty over the tariff regime in particular. So that's point one. Point two is that we have a very diversified business model at this point. [indiscernible] M and A, non M and A, across public companies, private companies, across The U. S. And Europe. That ability or that quad set of capabilities and geographic diversification means that we have the ability to skate to where opportunities are with our clients [indiscernible] rapidly evolving environment. So point one is M and A market is continuing, but will be subject to subject to challenges if the tariff regime is not clarified over during this ninety day window, Point B is we have a lot of products and strategies and services that we offer to our advisory clients beyond M and A. Yes, great.

Well said.

Maybe if I just as a follow-up, kind of narrowing on 2Q here.

Off to a good start based on what we can see in public data. And the deals that are set to close in the quarter would actually point to a pretty good second quarter here. Based on the visibility you have, how do you think the second quarter can compare to this first quarter? Can it be up sequentially and could it also even be up year over year? Thank you.

I would say that it is extremely challenging at this point in the quarter to be giving a definitive view about where a specific quarter is landing. But I'd go back to despite the uncertainty, we continue to see a lot of engagement clients and a lot of activity. I'm just not going to give you definitive answer to that question because even in normal times at this point in the quarter, there's still a lot of uncertainty around it. And we're not in normal times.

Understood. Thank you for taking my questions. Thank you. We'll go next now to James Yarrow with Goldman Sachs.

Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. Just firstly on the sponsor M and A dynamic, think 2025 was supposed to be a much healthier sponsor capital return backdrop across both M and A and IPOs. To what extent are you seeing sponsor M and A slowdown as a result of the macro backdrop in tariffs? And then what does this mean for the growth of secondaries for this year?

So look within sponsors, think there are multiple countervailing forces. On the one hand, private equity is built to trade. So there is an incentive there is a kind of underlying driver deal activity. And in addition, as you know, many portfolio companies have now been held for longer than their private equity owners would normally hold portfolio companies, that also pushes towards more deal activity. On the other hand, there are three factors currently that are that are going in the other direction. The first is that heightened uncertainty around tariffs can affect how one views a portfolio company, if it's affected by having to reconfigure its supply chain or pay significantly higher cost for its inputs. Or phase lower consumer demand for its products if the tariffs are passed along to the consumer. So that's factor one. Factor two is that even though these are private companies, the comparables are often public companies in terms of how they're valued. And whenever there's a very sharp movement in market valuation, can temporarily have a bid ask spread between buyer and seller. And so the market gyrations that we're being that we've been experiencing would to that second factor. And then the third one is, that many private equity transactions are backed by either the leverage loan market or the high yield market and those are both disrupted right now.

So those are the sort of countervailing forces. That push and pull will vary across sponsor It will vary across the type of portfolio company. And so what I would say is all three of those kind of counter vailing forces will dissipate. If there is clarity or more clarity provided over the tariff regime during this ninety day window. So there's a good example of how the policy world is interacting in a quite direct way with with that type of activity. And then on your second point, look, we see underlying growth the secondaries market period because penetration rate of secondaries in the marketplace still has room to grow in any market environment. But layered on top of that, you do have a cyclical force that if more portfolio companies are held for longer and LPs want liquidity, you'll get an additional accelerant to secondaries activity from from that tendency also. So but the important point on secondaries is while that may cause some acceleration this year, we see continued growth in [indiscernible] regardless.

Okay. That's very clear. Thank you. Maybe just could you speak a little bit to the dynamics within restructuring Could you talk about how trends have evolved in terms of separately liability management versus Chapter 11 and bankruptcy? And then the outlook for both these components. And then finally, maybe just how quickly could Chapter 11 potentially pick up if we were to see a weaker macro backdrop? Sure. So I do think this is an important change in the marketplace. We have retooled our group to handle both restructuring through Chapter 11 and liability management mandates. And also serve both debtors and creditors more evenly and when you look at the mix of our revenue mix within that group, it is a much more diversified debtor creditor mix. And then specifically on your question, [indiscernible] private capital has become more dominant, both private equity and private credit, the tendency to do liability management as opposed to a formal Chapter 11 process has increased and so we would anticipate that that will continue because the role of private capital is more dominant today than it was a decade or two ago. [indiscernible] is not to say there won't be formal Chapter 11 process for some firms, but do think the mix of business will continue to to be disproportionately in the light management camp.

That's very clear. Thanks a lot.

Thank you. We'll go next now to Ben Rubin with UBS.

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I first wanted to start on the comp ratio. So 65.5%, slightly below the last year's accrual. And I know your goal is to get to 60% or below and maybe the hope was to maybe get there this year. So I'm just curious, what would you need to see in terms of the M and A environment the deal backdrop such that you'd be more comfortable bringing down the accrual rate? And then also, if you can give us any type of indication on whether or not the 65.5% assumes improvement in fee revenues throughout the year? And if so, what type of magnitude Thank you.

I'll start and then Mary Anne will come in. Look, we were always really clear that 60% target was dependent on market conditions. I think maybe to the annoyance of some of you on the phone, we kept putting in those caveats. That was done on purpose. Because we recognize that the outlook had some uncertainty surrounding it and that operating leverage that is achievable depends on only what we do but also on the external environment. So I would just say we again put those caveats in on if you look back at the previous transcripts, on purpose [indiscernible] I'd say that events have underscored the wisdom of having done that. With regard to this year, we are going to have to see how this plays out. We are going to make every effort we have to continue to achieve some operating leverage and have comp ratio come down, but it is very dependent on what events beyond our control. And in particular whether there is resolution during this pause period or not. Because with the heightened uncertainty that currently exists you're in one scenario and if that uncertainty will resolve pretty quickly, you're in a different scenario. So that there's just there's no way to give more assurance when world is bifurcated in that to that degree.

But Marianne, Yes. I guess the way I might think about it is we're as Peter said, our backlog is growing, but it's at a much more modest pace than what we expected when we came into the year and when we were talking about the 20% ratio.

So I would think about it that if our revenue is relatively stable, then 65.5% is kind of our our best guess for the year at this point. It could It could change as the year goes on as it always does.

But that's how I would think about it.

Great. Thank you.

Wanted to shift gears maybe to asset management. Peter, you mentioned previously that you're entering the year with the 2025 could be an inflection for your asset management business much like 2024 was for financial advisory. With maybe the potential goal of hitting your net zero flows And you've been active, obviously, as you mentioned in your prepared remarks about launching active ETFs in The U. S. And also the general shift of investor interest going beyond The U. S. Should benefit your global strategies. So just curious, how do you feel about that net flow target today? And then also maybe if you could provide us a mark to market on how the flow picture is looking for April, that would be great. Thank you.

So what I would say is two things. First, if you look at the first quarter, net outflows were significantly lower than last year. And that occurred despite the fact that our won but not funded mandates increased. So I think there had been some speculation or commentary that we might have been eating into that one, but not yet funded mandate quantum and that's it's been the opposite. It's gone it's risen. And I'd note coming back to the geographic diversification that the majority of that one but not funded mandate comes from investors in Europe in particular. And so that shows the benefits of the diversification. And I'll let Evan give an update on or any additional color including anything you want to say about April. Sure. Yes. So clearly, we've been trending better than last year as we had expected coming into this year. And we talked about the more balanced flow picture coming into the year based on several factors. One was the strong foundation, as you mentioned, the one but not funded sort of that pipeline. That we started with this year. And as Peter mentioned, the elevated pipeline that we started this year with is not only not declined, but it's actually been growing steadily a little bit over the course of the first quarter, which continues to give us confidence Also the investments that we've made across our business both on the investment side, of course on distribution changes we've made and organizational changes that we made across the platform over the past year.

And then importantly, it really was based on the performance that we've had in many of the products that we expected to be interesting focused products for the market this year, the strong performance that we had was going to give us a lot of confidence. And then finally, was the new vectors of growth, as you mentioned, ETFs and others, which will play out and help us out over time. So all of that was the reason we expected there to be a more balanced picture of flows this year, and we're seeing all that play out. I think it's a little bit of a continuation of that trend into Q2. It's going be lumpy month to month as it always is. But we're continuing to see a more balanced picture. And given the fact that we remain with the higher elevated one but not funded and continuing to have new wins come in this quarter, in both quant and Japanese equities, international, global, all those strategies that make sense for the market today and are doing really, really well, we'd expect that to continue. So I think it's generally the continuation of the positive trend and the expectations we came in at the beginning of the year.

Great. Thank you for taking my questions. Thank you. We go next now to Ryan Kinney with Morgan Stanley.

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. So follow-up on the comp ratio. Understand there's a lot of uncertainty on the revenue side, but is there any framework we should think about in terms of comp dollar range? Is there a floor on comp dollars that we should think about in the scenario where maybe more deals start getting pushed out?

Yes. So I'll take that one, Ryan. [indiscernible] largest two components of our fixed compensation are salaries and amortization. And I would expect both of those to be up kind of in the mid single digits range year over year. And I think you have that data from our prior disclosure So if you want to kind of model the floor, I would think about those components. Salaries, we have every year there's people are promoted and we have cost of living adjustments, etcetera. Then on the amortization side, even though we brought our deferral rate down last year, we still had a higher deferral rate than we did in 2021, which is the year that rolls off this year. And so we do see that slight uptick in amortization as well. So that's how I would think about the fixed pieces, which sort of form your floor on the comp ratio.

All right. Thanks. That's helpful. And then on the restructuring restructuring backlog growing, any sense on how quickly conversations can turn into mandates and then how quick that can hit the P and L? Is that of a 2025 pickup story or more of a 2026 story?

I would say that one feature of restructuring mandates especially in the liability management category is that they can translate into revenue faster than many M and A deals. But we also have a mix of other non M and A businesses. Lazard Capital Solutions, PCA, etcetera, that can can translate from mandate awards to actual revenue faster than many M and A deals also. So it's not just restructuring that has different a different time profile. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll go next now to Devin Ryan of Citizens. Hey, this is Alex Jenkins filling in for Devin. Appreciate you guys taking my question. I guess just to follow-up on the asset management side, that $10,000,000,000 asset management mandate that you highlighted last quarter, Can you speak to whether any of that's been funded to date and just the timeline for full deployment? And specifically, are there any challenges or opportunities in executing this mandate that you would like to highlight today? Thank you. Well, again, and I'll let Evan elaborate this that figure was the one but not yet funded mandates overall And as we have noted before, quantum in that category has actually gone up. Not down. So there's always things that come ahead and get funded, but then there are new mandates that come in. And on net, it's increased not declined, which is what I think [indiscernible] has been perhaps some confusion about. But risen. And I don't know, Evan, if you wanted to add anything? Yes. I would say, Alex, it's not one mandate. It's a series, it's the backlog of things that were told we want to mandate, but it just hasn't funded yet.

So it's just a question of timing until that, they decide to actually the capital, but we they've chosen us to be their provider for the asset management services. And so it's a whole series of things across lots and lots of different products. And we're constantly rolling some of those things in. They're constantly funding. But as Peter and I mentioned, it's actually grown over the first quarter slightly. So it's starting at a very high elevated level. Relative to where we are historically. At the beginning of the year, we were at a higher and elevated level. That's why we continue to grow. But it's a mix of lots of different strategies with federal lots of different clients. We expect a lot of that to start to hit both in the second quarter probably into the third quarter of this year, but it's constantly being replenished. And so it's a question of how fast that gets we can continue to win new mandates in this environment. Those things sometimes can move around quarter to quarter because if there's volatility and institutions may decide let's not invest, let's not put the capital to work for a new mandate, In a period of high volatility, they may wait for a more more stable environment, that could move things out for a few weeks or a month based on the original timing.

But those things are very, very highly likely and almost certainly going to fund over the next twelve to fifteen months or so.

Okay. Yes. Thank you for that.

Clarification. I appreciate it. I guess just a quick follow-up on capital and growth. You've continued to bolster the platform. You're announced expansion plans in Europe, I guess just how are you prioritizing capital allocation between organic growth strategic partnerships and just shareholder returns. And maybe can you speak to anything terms of investments or acquisitions in the pipeline to support the 02/1930 strategic plan? Thank you.

Sure. So look, think we've been clear about our capital allocation priorities, which is after interest and dividends to [indiscernible] shares to offset part or all of our deferred compensation. And then with regard to that free cash flow over and above those priorities, We are considering a variety of inorganic options but we're going to be very judicious with regard to making sure that the match is right that shareholder value is enhanced and that it fits our strategic priorities. We are we remain in active dialogue on lots of inorganic options. Disproportionately on the asset management side of the business. But we are going to be very disciplined about preserving capital for its highest and best use. And to protect our to make sure that whatever we do is enhancing shareholder value. Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you. The next now to Brendan O'Brien of Wolfe Research. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. I guess to start, I just wanted to touch on Europe. I've been there's we've been hearing a lot more positivity on the MA backdrop in the region relative to The U. S. Of late. So just want to get a sense to how conversations in Europe compare to those in The U. S. Also Peter, you were quite you were constructive on cross border activity potentially improving if we were to see more protectionist regime in The U. S. But we've also seen some governments be fairly aggressive in discouraging U. S. Investment in response to more significant tariffs that were implemented. So I just wanted to get a sense as to how your outlook there has changed at all as well?

Sure. So I mean, as I mentioned, our backlog in Europe continues to expand disproportionately to the States. Think it's one of the benefits of this diversification and our long history in Europe and the local roots that we have there. With regard to the cross border activity, I mean, first, I think there is there are two things that I would note One is that cross border activity doesn't necessarily mean going directly into The United States. It can also mean the take taking a new look at entities that are in lower tariff regimes. And there was an announcement this morning involving a a major technology firm announcing some relocation of its production will occur. As an example. And that is one of the phenomenon that we we could we could see where it's not just interest in locating inside the tariff wall of The United States, but rather relocating another country. That has a lower tariff with The United States. We'll have to see, but just to point that out. I would note there is second thing I'd note is there's also increased interest in Europe Europe transactions. Things that don't touch The United States. Our deep local routes maybe the way I would put it is our deep local routes in Europe are benefit not just because if European firms want to locate inside the S. Tariff wall, that's an advantage.

But rather because by being close to the European clients that we are, whatever they want to do, whether it's Europe, Europe or Europe to ex U. S, transactions, we can be there for them in a way that reflects our long history with many of these clients. That's helpful color. And I guess for my follow-up, alluded to this a bit in an to a prior question, but I was just hoping you can give a bit more color on what you're seeing in terms of credit availability at the moment and specific whether you believe that growth in private credit will result in financing being more readily available in a down cycle relative to what we've seen in the past.

Yes, it's a great question. One of the reasons why we have built out a wide array of different ways of serving our clients is precisely because the world is evolving and the growth of private credit in particular is something that is different today than it was a decade ago. So our Lazard Capital Solutions Group is extremely active in helping corporates figure out innovative financing solutions and that demand for that goes up as the leverage loan market and the high yield market become more challenging. Just naturally. I mean it's always present as a competitive force, but it becomes yet more attractive when the other sources of financing are more challenging. So we are this is one area in which we are very, very active. And have deployed our banking teams across the globe. To help clients explore innovative financing solutions and we're very pleased to have expanded in this area and be able to help our clients with this with this new vector. So how much of an offset it is we'll have to see. I think the more important point is as I said before, I would expect that the challenges in the high yield market and the leverage loan market will dissipate if there is more certainty provided to the tariff regime and now that there's a little bit more certainty regarding the administration's approach to the Federal Reserve, So I wouldn't just take as given that the high yield and leverage loan market remain in their current state for the foreseeable future.

It's very dependent on what governments across the globe do.

Great. Thank you for taking my questions. Thank you. And we'll take a follow-up question now from Mike Brown at Wells Fargo. Great. Thanks for taking my follow-up. I just wanted to ask on the fee rate.

It ticked up nicely here in the first quarter. And just in light of that, how should we think about the full year fee rate guide? Does Is the 1Q the right level to consider for the next couple of quarters? Like is that the right jumping off? Point? Or does the mix shift from the mandates that are set to fund actually start to bring the fee rate down as those flow in? Thank you. Hey, Mike, it's Evan. I'll take this one. I mean, yes, the average fee rate for the quarter was up, obviously increased from Q1. And versus last year as well. As you mentioned, it's due to the business mix as we discussed in past quarters. The last couple of quarters, had a couple of larger outflows that were in lower fee mandates of a larger mandates, which helped the mix this quarter. Also some of the flows we had this quarter into some of the global EM Japan and others came in at higher fees. I'd say, look, the pipeline that we keep talking about, the one but not funded is a mix of products and some of the larger mandates. Depending on the timing of when those things come in, you could have some movement in the next couple of quarters could have a smaller impact.

But overall, fee rate stability, which what we've seen over the last several quarters, has been a positive story for us across the platform. And the newer products and newer vehicles that from a strategic planning perspective that we've been putting in there should continue to support this over time. As for the jumping off point because of some of that movement and some of idiosyncratic timing of some of the flows. I would say probably better to assume the average of 2024 is probably where we average for 2025 as it jumps off point, but it's going to move around a little bit quarter to quarter as it has And so far it's been a positive story in Q1. Okay, great. Thanks, Jon.

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, that is our last question for this morning. So that will bring us to the conclusion of today's conference call. Ms. Dorisak, I'd like to turn things back to you for any closing comments.

Yes, thank you very much. I would just close by saying it is clear that we are in a period of massively heightened uncertainty. But it's two things about Lazard make it a moment in which our clients seek out our advice disproportionately. The first is that we have always had and it's in our DNA this ability to combine business and financial decision making with insight into what governments are doing That skill set is more important than ever because it is I think increasingly obvious to everyone that you can't make a decision just within the four corners of the Excel spreadsheet. You need to take into account the policy and government backdrop to that. That is a core competency of Lazard. And the second is that our diversified business model [indiscernible] geographically and with regard to what products and services and other ways of helping clients we're able to offer. Tends to shine in moments like this because it allows us to skate to where the client needs are very quickly. And so we all hope that uncertainty is resolved sooner rather than later that Lazard's business model is resilient to all the various scenarios. That we may be playing through in the coming months and quarters.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you, Mr. Orszag. Again, ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's Lazard's first quarter twenty twenty five earnings conference call. Again, thanks much for joining us everyone and we wish you all a great day. Goodbye.