Porch Group, Inc. Price & Performance (PRCH)

As a reminder, this webcast will be available for replay along with a presentation shortly after this call on the company's website at ir.portagroup.com. Joining me here today are Matt Anik Enerlichman, Portrait's CEO, Chairman and Founder Sean Tabak, Portuguese CFO and Matthew Nagel, Board Group's COO. Thank you. I'll now turn the call over to Matt for his key updates.

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us. We demonstrated exceptional progress of being a new kind of homeowners insurance company differentiated by one, advantaged underwriting with unique data two, early access to homebuyers and three, a customer experience that makes the move and home simple.

Our vertical software powers 40% of the home inspection industry 40% of title transactions and operates in key sectors including mortgage and roofing. Our data platform now includes Home Factors for 90% of U. S. Properties, and early insights into 90% of U. S. Homebuyers. We are a leader nationwide in providing moving labor and expanded long term partnerships with the major moving companies, utilities, insurance agencies and more. With these advantages, we aim to build one of the largest and most profitable homeowners insurance companies I believe this update today will demonstrate we're on our way to doing so. So now on to the key highlights and there are a number of them that I'm excited to share. Three years ago, we set an important goal to hit adjusted EBITDA profitability for the second half of 2023. And the full year 2024 I am proud to share that we achieved that goal delivering $7,000,000 in adjusted EBITDA for the full year 2024. This means that in the fourth quarter, profitability was meaningfully better than guidance Adjusted EBITDA was a record $42,000,000 net income was $30,000,000 The progress we've made is even more clearer as we look ahead. For full year 2025, we are providing adjusted EBITDA guidance of $60,000,000 at the midpoint a 15% adjusted EBITDA margin, and more than a $50,000,000 increase over 2024.

More, we are increasing our outlook for revenue gross profit and adjusted EBITDA for 2025. 2025 revenue guidance is $400,000,000 at the midpoint, Going forward, our revenue is much higher quality given our transition away from holding weather risk toward a simpler commission and fee based higher margin model. Case in point, are guiding to approximately 80% gross margins in 2025. At our December Investor Day, we highlighted of $100,000,000 of adjusted EBITDA Given this is our first earnings call since our Investor Day, I do want to confirm that we are on track and remain confident in achieving this goal. Importantly, we expect Porch to generate cash for shareholders this year. We expect to deliver positive adjusted EBITDA every quarter going forward. This is an exciting time. Porch the company. So the end of twenty twenty four marked an important moment for Porch On 01/01/2025, we completed the formation of the Porch Insurance Reciprocal Exchange which we may refer to as Pire, and the sale of our Homeowners of America insurance carrier into. This transforms the financial results for Porch Group shareholders to be more predictable and higher margin.

The member owned design of the outside of Porch Group. Porch will receive commission and fees for operating prior benefiting from higher margins and more predictable earnings. I do want to zoom out here just for a second and provide some context Our journey In the last few years, we have focused on profitability and I certainly am pleased with the progress. We've now entered this next chapter, one focused on growing rapidly while simultaneously expanding margins. Now that we've completed the optimal structuring of our insurance business, we've reopened geographies and reactivated distribution partners. We've already seen substantial growth in new business premium here in Q1. Thank you to our employees for your work to get us here. Thank you to our shareholders for your support. We are excited to deliver spectacularly. Now, Sean, over to you to provide the financial details.

Thank you, Matt, and good afternoon, everyone. As a reminder, Q4 twenty twenty four revenue has a tough comparison due to two items. First, in the fourth quarter of twenty twenty in the fourth quarter, excuse me, of 02/2023, revenue was $26,000,000 higher due to lower reinsurance seating following the best due matter. And second, in the first quarter of twenty twenty four, we sold EIG, legacy in house agency. With that consideration, total revenue in the February was $100,400,000 a $14,200,000 or 12% decrease from the prior year. In addition, in the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, there was a $5,000,000 nonrecurring year end adjustment revenue and adjusted EBITDA related to the wrap up of some legacy reinsurance complexity in life of Vest Absent these non recurring items, the business performed well. And has strong 20% organic growth trends led by the Insurance segment. Revenue less cost for revenue was $89,300,000 an 89% margin.

Q4 adjusted EBITDA was $41,800,000 That's a $30,100,000 increase over the prior year and ahead of our expectations. Driven by strong execution, risk selection, capital allocation and cost control. I want to take a second to show appreciation and highlight the performance of the team. This is quite a significant improvement in adjusted EBITDA year over year.

Gross written premium was $112,000,000 broadly flat compared to the prior year with premium per policy increases offset by the divestiture of our legacy insurance agency, EIG, in the first quarter of twenty twenty four. The reciprocal approval and formation took a bit longer than originally anticipated, but we reopened for growth late last year. Matthew Matthew will talk through the progress shortly. Now looking at our results by segment. In insurance, revenue was $72,000,000 The items I discussed above for total revenue all apply to the insurance segment. Absent these non recurring items, the Insurance segment performed well and has strong 29% organic growth trends. Driven by increases in premium per policy. In vertical software, revenue was 29,300,000.0 a 6% increase from the prior year driven by SaaS price increases. Moving on to adjusted EBITDA. Insurance adjusted EBITDA was $48,800,000 a $17,200,000 increase over the prior year driven by our insurance profitability actions, [indiscernible] which have helped us select the right risks to ensure. Vertical software adjusted EBITDA was $5,000,000 a $5,300,000 increase over the prior year driven by the SaaS price increases and strong cost control. There was a 500 basis point increase in revenue less cost revenue margin in this segment.

Finally, corporate expenses were $12,000,000 $8,000,000 lower than the prior year as we continue to manage costs and see the benefit of the actions we've taken. Let's take a step back and look at our full year performance. Total revenue for the full year 2024 was $437,800,000 a 2% increase over the prior year driven by the Insurance segment. As a reminder, in the prior year in the best two matter, resulted in approximately $55,000,000 of incremental revenue. In the 2023 comparative period. Revenue less cost of revenue was $212,200,000.0 representing a margin of 48%. Adjusted EBITDA was $7,200,000 for the full year. Better than our expectations driven by strong execution across all segments. This was an increase of $51,700,000 over the prior driven by the divestiture of EIG in Q1. Otherwise, we managed HOA grocer and premiums, to our plan of roughly flat compared to the prior year. Now moving on to the balance sheet.

There are several benefits from the shift toward the commission and fee based insurance services business model. It is simpler, higher margin, and asset light. Excluding HOA, we ended 2024 with cash, cash equivalents, and investments of $70,000,000 At that time, Quartz Group also held a $49,000,000 surplus note an HOA that yields a coupon equal to 9.75% plus over. Following the sale of HOA to Peyre, on 01/01/2025, as of month end January, cash and investments was approximately $93,000,000 and the surplus note balance increased to $106,000,000 Additionally, following the period end, there was positive progress with our Vestu claims We now expect to receive approximately $7,000,000 of additional cash later in Q1 from the vestu bankruptcy process, with the potential for Porch over time. Additionally, our litigation against other parties remain ongoing and we will keep you posted as things develop. At the so far current rates, these surplus notes would generate approximately $15,000,000 of interest income annually report shareholders Porch, we substantially offsets our debt interest payments. Now looking ahead to 2025. First, I wanted to remind about a few changes starting in Q1, First, I wanted to remind about a few changes starting in Q1, consistent with what we laid out at our Investor Day.

First, we will continue to focus on generating cash for the Porch shareholders as the primary measure of value creation. While we will consolidate, hire and HOA into our GAAP financials for the time being, Adjusted EBITDA will exclude the results of Bayer and HOA, as they do not contribute to cash available to Port shareholders.

Adjusted EBITDA will include results of the segments that contribute to generating Porch cash. Which will include insurance services, software and data, and consumer services. Offset by corporate expenses. We will call this Porch shareholder interest and provide guidance on this basis [indiscernible] gross profit, and adjusted EBITDA.

We expect to introduce new KPIs in 2025 which align with our go forward business segments. Starting with Q1 twenty twenty five, we plan to report gross profit instead of revenue less cost revenue. $10,000,000,000 of depreciation and amortization expense into cost of revenue. Predominantly in the software and data segment. Even with this change, we expect gross margins to be substantially improved in 02/2025. [indiscernible] Now for our 02/2025 guidance for Porch shareholder interest. We expect 02/2025 revenue of $390,000,000 to $410,000,000 better than previously communicated. This is a slight decrease year over year, given the shift to the lower lower revenue but higher margin reciprocal operating services model. Case in point, we expect gross profit to grow approximately 50%.

Compared to 2024 less cost of revenue.

We expect 02/2025 gross profit of $310,000,000 to $325,000,000 with an associated margin of approximately 80%. Highlighting the more profitable and predictable model.

Overall, we expect adjusted EBITDA of $55,000,000 to $65,000,000 At the midpoint, this is approximately a 15% adjusted EBITDA margin, and a $53,000,000 increase over 2024. Our higher adjusted EBITDA guidance includes increasing sales and product investments in the first half of twenty twenty five to drive faster growth in 02/1926 and beyond, across each of our segments. I'll now hand over to Matthew to discuss a strategic update and review our KPIs. Thank you, Sean. I'd like to start by highlighting our four focus areas. To drive revenue growth for the business. First, is to scale insurance premiums.

We expect the massive homeowners insurance market to increase rapidly focus on homebuyers and low risk homes. Homebuyers make up about 40% of homeowners insurance purchases each year, Low risk homes are what everybody in the industry wants.

We just have the advantage to identify and price them more effectively given our unique property data. Toward the end of Q4 after the Pirate approval was received, we started we restarted premium growth after a period of managing premiums to flat. We've been reopening geographies, hiring sales leadership, reengaging legacy agency partners, in adding new agencies to expand distribution. Momentum is building, And in fact, we saw 50% growth in new business premium in Q4 and already in Q1, we are seeing new business [indiscernible] versus the prior year. Most of our premiums though will come through renewals. So rate increases make a big impact. We will continue to take rate and expect average rate premium per policy nearing $3,000 at the end of twenty twenty five.

An increase of approximately 20% over the prior year. Overall, we're excited about the momentum towards our $500,000,000 gross written premium target for 2025 We expect premium growth to continue to accelerate throughout the year. The second area of revenue growth is innovation in our vertical software businesses. We are executing our product roadmap, which supports our strong customer retention, our strategic price increases. Q4 key advancements included AI powered assistant, to accelerate inspection report building, advanced reporting capabilities for Rhino, Flowify Verify for streamlined income and employment verification in a new measurement as a service product in our roofing software.

Retention and satisfaction rates remain strong and as the housing market stabilizes, we expect solid revenue growth. Next is the growth of our data business. Launched in 2024, Homefactors has the potential to become a big and profitable business. Our work with HOA and third party carriers clearly indicates that Home Factors improves risk selection. We're adding new Home Factors each quarter, increasing value for Payer and HOA, and driving third party revenue. Lastly, there is a real opportunity to access more homebuyers and help them with more high value home services. In December, we launched MovingPlace, a marketplace that simplifies moving. We also signed new warranty and moving partnerships, which expands our access to high value homebuyers early in their journey. Strategically, this is important as it creates more leads for our insurance agency partners and incentivizes them to sell higher and HOA insurance products. Now to KPIs.

Twenty twenty four KPIs are presented on the legacy segments, and will be updated in Q1 twenty twenty five to reflect the go forward business segments. Looking at the legacy KPIs for Q4 twenty twenty four, first, the average number of companies was 27,000. Average revenue per company per month was $12.36 dollars We had 219,000 monetized services in the quarter, and the average revenue per monetized service was $390 Looking now at our Insurance segment KPIs, As a reminder, this segment currently includes HOA and warranty. From Q1 twenty twenty five, warranty will be included our Consumer Services segment.

Also, when comparing year over year figures, a reminder that we divested our insurance agency EIG, in January 2025. In Q4 twenty twenty four, gross rent premium was $112,000,000 roughly flat compared to the prior year.

Policies in force was 206,000. As we previously discussed, our strategy has been to use tactics such as targeted non renewals to manage a decline in policies over the last couple of years while maintaining premium roughly flat. An increase of 25% from the prior year driven by premium per policy increases. Focusing on HOA, the annualized earned premium per policy increased 31% to $2,446 Premium retention was 105%. Lastly, HOA is healthy. With a record surplus as it transitions to the reciprocal structure. As of 12/31/2024, it held $157,000,000 of surplus combined with non admitted assets that include a portion related to port sales held by HOA.

In Q4, our gross loss ratio was exceptional 21%. Down from 36% last year. Our attritional loss ratio sets the bar for the industry at 16% compared to 30% in the prior year. November and December saw the lowest claims volumes for many years.

We have effectively targeted and retained the homes with lower risk over the last few years. Also note the insurance carrier has no exposure in California. For the full year, we delivered a 65% gross loss lower than 69% in the prior year. Despite Hurricane Barrel one of HOA's larger weather events, As you can see in the chart, we improved despite the increase in catastrophic weather costs. Driven by a 22% attritional loss ratio compared to a 34% in the prior year.

Gross combined ratio was 79% in 2024 an improvement from 88% in the prior year and a fantastic result Porch the year.

All of these metrics reflect our success in targeting and retaining lower risk homes through the strength of our advantaged underwriting and strategic actions, over the last couple of years. I'll now hand it back to Matt for closing remarks.

Thank you, Matthew. We believe the numbers speak for themselves and that our We believe the homeowners insurance industry presents a huge and exciting growth opportunity highly sticky and valuable customers. With our insurance services, commission and fee structure, we're positioned for consistent and sustained profitable revenue growth with approximately 80% expected gross margins and mitigation from weather volatility. Our unique data drives long term pricing and underwriting advantages. We laid out our objectives clearly in our recent Investor Day. To achieve $100,000,000 of adjusted EBITDA in 2026 to scale our insurance business to $3,000,000,000 in premiums over time, to build a large indefensible data business, grow our software and consumer services divisions, and generate a consistent and increasing amount of cash for shareholders. I'll wrap up by reinforcing the most important messages from today First, delivering record quarterly adjusted EBITDA of $42,000,000 in Q4 twenty twenty four and full year adjusted EBITDA of $7,000,000 Second, we increased our twenty twenty third twenty five adjusted EBITDA guidance to $60,000,000 at the midpoint and reaffirmed our $100,000,000 twenty twenty six adjusted EBITDA target three, the formation of [indiscernible] Four, we opened geographies and commenced our premium growth plan and are seeing strong early signs.

We expect some fantastic years ahead. Thank you again to our shareholders for your continued Porch. And with that, John, please open up the call for questions.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. If you are called upon to ask a question and are listening via loud speaker on your device, Please pick up your handset and ensure that your phone is not on mute when asking your question. Your first question comes from the line of Dan Kurnas with The Benchmark Company.

Great. Thanks. Good afternoon. Matt, the Investor Day was a little over two months ago and we're already starting to tweak numbers up in 25. So can we just get some more color on what's informing that enthusiasm that you have out of the gate specific segments, gross written premium trends, anything to start would be helpful.

Yeah.

Maybe I'll kick it off and then Sean, but then Lair in. I think a few things. One, you know, the plan has just come together as we had intended. So actually getting through the formation of the reciprocal, completing the sale, [indiscernible] obviously, we would leave a bit of cushion there until those those events actually occurred. And so it's nice to see those things again happening as expected. Two, Matthew mentioned just as we activated our growth plan, we're just seeing really good signs. There. And so certainly comforting and exciting to see see the growth happening as intended and as expected. And then lastly, I would just say across the board, we're seeing strong execution, continued strong execution. From our business units and the leaders. We feel really good about where the team is and just the day to day, week to week, month to month, execution.

Yeah, I'll just maybe touch on the insurance segment in particular. I think it's the Investor Day, we talked about about a 40% conversion of premium, insurance premium to revenue there. We also talked our about our ability to toggle up that conversion rate as well with other opportunities. And so as we progress with Pire, to Matt's point, given the very strong, you know, out the gate early progress on the [indiscernible] seeing those opportunities [indiscernible] Another point I'll make there is that is a very high gross profit margin as well as adjusted EBITDA margin business that we're able to drive.

That's super helpful. If I can just follow-up on that point and maybe Matthew if you want to step into just you commented on new business being strong. Just any way to give us some directional color on agencies turned back on, how receptive they are to driving higher and new business And just obviously that's going to layer into how we should think about surplus and take rate So just directionally, some initial, I know it's really early, but directional thoughts would be helpful.

Yeah.

So we, as Sean mentioned, we turned back on growth towards the end of Q4, just to share, give you a little color of what that means. First, we reopened geographies. We took a closer look at our commission plans to make sure we're incenting type of behavior that we wanted We started to invest in our growth team, which is a team that goes out and onboards new agents, and engages our existing agents. We high hired a phenomenal leader from Farmers. He was a a VP of growth there he led a region that did over $3,000,000,000 in premium. And also brings to their own set of contacts in the agency industry Right now, what I would the color that I would give additionally is Agents are excited about Pyre. There's a number of exciting things about Porch Insurance product in terms of the value it can provide to consumers.

And what we're seeing is just people getting reengaged with HOA after a period where we were quiet. Intentionally quiet. So a lot of it is just being open for business, telling folks we want to grow and all of that is encouraging. And so we're seeing it in the number of new policies, We're starting to see it in the number of agencies being active. And we're certainly seeing it in the number of agents that we're onboarding. And then of course, as we onboard those agents, there's sort of a ramp up period before they get fully appointed and then they start running the business and that business starts to get active. It is early, but we I think we're encouraged by how things are shaping up at the gate.

All right. I'll jump back in queue, but it's a nice start to the year, guys, obviously. Well done. Thanks, Tim.

Your next question comes from the line of Jason Helfstein with Oppenheimer. Please go ahead. Thanks. I guess, I wanted to similar, but just how are you thinking about leaning more into growth or leaning into growth now that [indiscernible] Can you address some of like I guess organic benefits you'll get and some of the uncertainty around HOA is kind of gone, but just what proactively can you do kind of with your own investments to drive more growth in the business? Broadly? Thank you.

I'll take that, Matt, and Sean, if you guys want to lay around. Some of what I want to reiterate is what I just shared and what we talked about at the Investor Day, But our go to market and insurance is through agents. And there are many, many more agents that are out there than are currently engaged or appointed with HOA. And so A lot of the focus is just how do we go reactivate that agent channel and it's a lot of blocking and tackling. It's getting people on the team. It's having conversations with agents. And it's getting the right incentives in place, which we feel we have done and are able to do. There's also a little bit of benefit that we've talked about just from the natural rate increases that we're getting A lot of those from 2024 are still flowing through into 2025. We already have some planned for 2025. So from an insurance standpoint, it'll take some time and it's and it requires us to execute But the path is there for us.

And the goal is $500,000,000 gross written premium for this year. Dollars $600,000,000 for next year, but our real ambition is we think we can get to $3,000,000,000 over the next five to ten years. When we look beyond the insurance business, we are starting to invest in more growth. Sean did mention that we've introduced some investments into sales and marketing in particular in our consumer services group, but also some in our software group. And then also starting to invest more in just the strategic product roadmap that we have where we're trying to consistently roll out new features that are then paired with price increases. And we think we have good enough understanding of kind of the mechanics there and the economics where all [indiscernible] we're going to do this year we went through and did the analysis and found really good returns. I still think insurance is a big opportunity for us, but there growth opportunity across other parts of the business as we look 2025 certainly into 2026 and 2027. Two quick things, Jason, just to layer on. Matthew mentioned the additional return profile of those investments is really attractive. And strong. And so we said a certain kind of threshold for what kind of returns we want to be able to deploy more capital in our businesses.

And And it's attractive. And so we're excited clearly to be able to be able to deploy more capital. And still increase EBITDA guidance like we are And then the second thing is, I would just say that the market is set up really well. For us. We're not assuming anything in our plan here in terms of big housing market bounce backs or anything.

So if and as that happens, that will just be tailwinds for us. But in the insurance industry as well, it's a very attractive market. [indiscernible] Certain carriers are wanting to write less. We've done the work to go ahead and to get things priced correctly so that we can generate the types of margins that we are and add surplus to the insurance business.

And with the reciprocal structure, we get to participate in this attractive insurance market. Which will just naturally lead to solid growth.

Your next question comes from the line of John Kampel with Stephens.

Hey guys, good afternoon. Congrats on a great quarter and close to the year.

Thank you. It was great to yes, it was great to see you guys raise your EBITDA guidance. I mean, now obviously, in just two months, your stock is trading at a pretty silly low multiple of the 26 EBITDA guidance. So this is definitely a nitpick like question if you keep that stuff in mind. But I saw that you guys reiterated the 2026 guidance despite that twenty twenty five raise. Maybe it's a desire not to get over your skis, which I'm assuming that probably is the case, but I'm curious why you wouldn't go ahead and raise the 26 guidance by a similar amount? [indiscernible] Sure. Happy to. We're we're certainly seeing as I think as we just talked about really great progress and momentum in the business and the execution has been really, really wonderful. And, you know, it really is, I think, what you're thinking about there, John. A hundred million dollars is a really important target us in adjusted EBITDA for next year. The business is certainly marching towards that. Today, we're happy to, you know, increase the 02/2025 guidance to $60,000,000 And we'll provide We'll just leave it there for now.

Let me add one more thing, which is Yeah. John, it is really just about not getting over skis. I think you said it really well. We don't want every quarter to be updating on the next year's guidance. That's not our plan, just to update on this year's guidance. We feel good, like I said, about how we're set up for 2026. But we'll update and change that number as we get closer 2026.

Yes, makes sense. How we do on the sell side, we'll run away as an without your numbers. So smart move. On Home Factors, I saw in the press release you guys are growing the pipeline for testing. That's great to hear. I'm curious how the product is performing versus maybe your original expectations? And then for the 2026 targets, if you can maybe shed any kind of light on the Home Factors Rev kind of baked in Porch just maybe more generally just the shape of the curve Porch maybe the trajectory of growth, how to '26?

Yes, I can speak to that. We see very strong evidence in using it in our own underwriting and pricing. We're now engaged with, multiple carriers in a deep way to either test or to begin using the Home Factor's data in the early signal is there is interest that it does have an impact on their pricing in underwriting. The other point I would just mention is we're still building out more 100 by the end of twenty twenty five. Investing in the go to market teams. In fact, we just identified a leader that will start in the next month or so And that will accelerate our pipeline building We have communicated that it is it is a laddering process of getting more and more carriers engaged in the sales cycle does take time. You got to work through some of these larger carriers, you got to get a test.

And then they got to kind of roll it out. So we haven't assumed really much revenue for 2025. We start to assume some in 2026 and then it we see a bigger opportunity in 2027 and 2028. And right now, we're just we're focused on executing and adding more home factors in talking to more carriers. It's still early, but I would say the energy Internally and the people we're talking to is very strong and encouraging.

Okay.

It's very helpful. Good work guys. Thanks. Thanks, John.

Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Tomicelo with KBW.

Please go ahead.

Everyone. Thanks for taking the questions. Just wanted to dovetail on the home factors topic. And Matthew, I know you kind of already touched on it, but just if you can provide some more color on what would there still is to chop on building out the go to market for that product. You mentioned, I think you just hired a new sales leader there, but what that go to market will look like? How much of that is being baked into some of the investments in 2025. Yes, it's certainly an investment area in 2025.

It's not a massive infrastructure right now that's needed. It's a sales team that can go, there's 400 to 500 targets Our goal is to try to start conversations with all of them in some form and then the POC the proof of concepts and other things take time. There's some sales engineer work in order to support the task and roll it out. But The actual infrastructure is all done via APIs and it's very scalable. Over time, we're already starting to kind of envision variations of products to meet particular use cases that we may invest as those come up, it's within our means. We just got to go execute, build out the team, and then just work the pipeline, and work our way through the purchasing processes of insurance companies But the interest is certainly there.

Great. And then I recall from the Investor Day, it sounds like you are still interested in opportunistic M and A So Matt, I'm just curious, where that ranks on the list of growth priorities currently. And among the ways you can leverage M and A seems like scaling the insurance business is an interesting way to lean on that inorganic area. So just curious how you're thinking about M and A from here?

Yes. Certainly, to be clear, the guidance we put out today is all organic. And so M and A would be incremental. To what we're laying out We are at a point where we can begin to start to talk about that. Again, we do believe we have a strong set of capabilities, the ability to integrate acquisitions effectively and to be able to accelerate growth given kind of the broad set of capabilities. That we have, I agree with you. I think there's different ways that you could use the M and A capabilities to accelerate what we're doing in the insurance industry. And obviously, as we progress there, we'll provide more more updates. But more to come, nothing to share in terms of details here today.

Great. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Ryan.

You're next. Comes from the line of Jason Prior with Craig Hallum Capital Group.

Please go ahead.

This is Cow on for Jason. Maybe just to start, can you just talk about your expectations to grow policies and what a cadence for PIP growth as 2025 progresses Sure. I can. So in terms of, we're working towards the $500,000,000 gross premium target [indiscernible] We are assuming an increase policy due to rate increases that are already filed that are still flowing through and also ones that we have planned for this year. In terms of [indiscernible] we aren't expecting a lot of growth in 2025. It's Mostly flat. And then we'll start to see that pickup as we head into 2026. Well, we're excited, right? Thanks.

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Sorry.

I guess maybe just secondly, we've seen a bit more mild start to the real estate market this year. So just curious your thoughts on how this potentially impact course trends as 2025 move on?

I mean, we're conservative as it relates to just our assumptions that are built into our guidance as compared to kind of third party.

Estimates. We think that's the prudent place to kind of pick housing market growth. Again, like I said, we're not assuming much in terms of housing market bounce back.

And like you see in our guidance, a flat year in the housing market, our businesses can perform really nicely. And when the housing market does come back and it will normalize, obviously, we'll benefit from that. But yes, we are being conservative as compared to what third parties expect At this point.

Great.

Thank you.

As there are no further questions at this time, I would like to turn the call back over to Matt for closing remarks.

I just would say I appreciate the questions. I appreciate the time. Yo, this is, you know, a great moment for the company. We've worked hard to be able to to get the business structured, what we believe is optimally and you can start to see it in the results. We're clearly excited to get back together here for Q1 earnings and then to continue to share more as we progress through an important 2025 Porch. With that, we will close the call. Thank you all very much.