Privia Health Group, Inc. Price & Performance (PRVA)

Thank you, Louella, and good morning, everyone. This call is being webcast and can be accessed to the Investor Relations section of priviahealth.com Privia with today's financial press release and slide presentation. Following our prepared comments, we will open the line for questions. We ask that you please limit yourself to one question only and return to the queue if you have a follow-up so we can get to as many questions as possible. The financial results reported today are preliminary and are not final until our Form 10 ks for the year ended 12/31/2024 is filed with the Securities and Exchange Some of the statements we will make today are forward looking in nature based on our current expectations and view of our business as of 02/27/2025. Such statements, including those related to our future financial and operating performance, and future business plans and objectives, are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially. As a result, these statements should be considered along with the cautionary statements in today's press release and the risk factors described in our company's most recent SEC filings. Finally, we may refer to certain non GAAP financial measures on the call.

We Reconciliation of these measures to comparable GAAP measures are included in our press release and the accompanying slide presentation posted on our website. Now, I'd like to hand the call over to our CEO, Partha Mrotra.

Thank you, Robert, and good morning, everyone.

Privia Health had a very strong 2024 on many fronts as we continue to execute well and drive growth across all our markets. This morning, I'll cover our 2024 performance business highlights, Then David will discuss our recent financial results capital position and our 2025 guidance outlook, before we take your questions. Privia's momentum extended across all aspects of our business as we exceeded the high end of all guidance metrics for 2024. [indiscernible] Our growth team once again delivered an exceptional year of new provider signings in existing markets which underpins our strong visibility through 2025. Implemented providers increased 11.2% year over year which drove FIFA service collections growth of 13.6%. Healthy growth in attribution and a continued focus on clinical performance improvement led to better than expected value based care results despite the challenging Medicare Advantage environment. Adjusted EBITDA was up 25.2% with operating leverage driving margin expansion of two thirty basis points year over year. Despite continued investments in our U. S. Markets. Privia also generated a record $109,300,000 in free cash flow in 2024 converting 121% of adjusted EBITDA. We ended the year with $491,000,000 in cash, [indiscernible] Our balance sheet positions us with significant financial flexibility to deploy capital and take advantage of opportunities in the current market environment.

Our business development pipeline is robust. We are committed to pursuing disciplined growth that complements our organic sales engine existing markets. Privia's outstanding performance the current healthcare and regulatory environment is a testament to the strength of our unique business model strong execution by our operating teams, and most importantly, exceptional performance by our physician partners in our high performing medical groups and risk entities. We are well on our path to building one of the largest primary care centric delivery networks in the nation. Our large scale high quality community based medical groups and risk entities have demonstrated proven success across 14 states and the District Of Columbia. In these geographies, our footprint now comprises 4,789 implemented providers, caring for over 5,200,000 patients, in more than 1,200 care center locations.

Gross provider retention of 98% highlights the stickiness of our model and our provider satisfaction with the Privia platform.

Likewise, our patients Net Promoter Score of 87 underscores the excellent patient experience being delivered by our medical groups. Privia now serves over 1,260,000 attributed lives across and government value based care programs. The breadth of our contracts, and geographic reach positions us as one of the most balanced and diversified value based care organizations. Total attributed lives estimated as of January 1 increased more than 11% from a year ago, driven by new provider growth, well as new value based care contracts in certain programs. Commercial attributed lives increased 15.2% from last year to reach 782,000 Medicare Advantage and Medicaid attribution both increased almost 8% We continue to expect headwinds in Medicare Advantage over the next few years given pressures from elevated utilization trends, phase in of We '28 through 2026, and changes in STAR scores among other factors. However, the diversification of previous value based care contracts gives us confidence in our ability to build scale and profitability across the business, despite challenges in any one particular program. We remain highly focused on generating positive contribution margin in our value based contracts as we pursue attribution growth manage risk and implement clinical and operational enhancements, in our partner practices.

Ultimately, our goal is consistent and sustainable earnings growth. For our medical groups and shareholders year after year. Privia has delivered consistent growth and profitability and free cash flow across economic, [indiscernible] regulatory and political cycles over the past seven years. The power of our business model and consistent execution is evident in how we have compounded all key metrics including free cash flow over time. Since 2018, we have consistently expanded EBITDA margins, and converted 105% of EBITDA to free cash flow on average. Midpoint of our 2025 guidance metrics demonstrates our for another year of strong EBITDA growth despite significant headwinds in the current healthcare environment for value based care. Now I'll ask David to review our recent financial results and discuss our capital position and 2025 guidance outlook Thank you, Barth. Privia executed very well through the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four. Our implemented providers grew 147 sequentially from Q3, to reach 4,789 at December 31.

An increase of 11.2% year over year.

The growth in implemented providers along with continuation of solid ambulatory utilization trends and value based performance led to practice collections increasing 4.7% from Q4 a year ago to reach $792,500,000 Excluding revenue from the renegotiated Medicare Advantage Capitated agreements, practice collections increased approximately 12.4% year over year in the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four. [indiscernible] Adjusted EBITDA, which has reconciled the GAAP net income in the appendix, increased 44% over Q4 last year reach 24,900,000.0 representing 23.1% of care margin. This is a four twenty basis point improvement from a year ago as we generated operating leverage across both cost of platform and G and A, while investing across all markets. As Park noted, we exceeded the high end of guidance for all key operating and financial metrics for full year 2024. Cash flow generation of our business model further strengthens our healthy balance sheet as we ended 2024 with approximately $491,000,000 in cash and no debt. With de minimis capital expenditures in 2024, free cash flow for the year was $109,300,000 or 121% of adjusted EBITDA, Higher than previous guidance due to the timing of certain outgoing cash payments, as well as prudent working capital management. Our initial guidance for 2025 built upon strong 2024 provider signings, and the diversity and resiliency of our operating model in the current healthcare environment. [indiscernible] 2025, we expect to focus on the same core priorities that have driven our business to date, First, provider growth to increase density and scale in existing and new markets.

Second, attribution growth and performance in value based arrangements and third, operational improvements and efficiencies that impact the bottom line. Using the midpoint of our 2025 guidance, implemented providers are expected to increase 9.6% year over year to reach 5,250 by year end and attributed lives growth is expected to be approximately 7.5%. [indiscernible] We expect practice collections growth of approximately 7.8% at the midpoint. This guidance assumes minimal increase in shared savings accruals year over year given the ongoing challenges in the Medicare Advantage environment. We expect care margin growth of 8.9% at the midpoint given minimal increase in shared savings accruals. We are also guiding to adjusted EBITDA growth of approximately 19% at the midpoint. [indiscernible] EBITDA margin as a percentage of care margin is expected to expand approximately 200 basis year over year as our operating leverage in more mature markets more than offsets new market entry costs. While we are maintaining a robust pipeline of existing market expansion and potential new market opportunities, Our initial 2025 guidance assumes no new business development activity or capital [indiscernible] Finally, we expect capital expenditures to be de minimis again this year as part of our cap and are assuming an effective tax rate of 26% to 28%.

We are nearing the end of our net operating loss carry forward, so we expect to pay more for cash taxes in 2025. This should still lead to at least 80% of our full year adjusted EBITDA converting to free cash flow. [indiscernible] Privia Health remains focused on building one of the largest primary care centric delivery networks in the nation. We look forward to continuing to serve our physicians providers and health system partners and their patients while creating value for our shareholders for many years to come. Operator, we are now ready to take questions. Your first question comes from the line of Elizabeth Anderson with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Hi, guys. This is Sameer Patel on for Elizabeth Anderson. Congrats on the strong quarter and the solid guidance here.

I just wanted to ask about the OpEx line. It looks like you're increasing OpEx based on your guide by only about $300,000 year over year. Can you just help us understand and break out the leverage between sales and marketing and G and A? Is sales and marketing expected to be maybe down year over year just given the fact that there's no new market entry costs or how should we think about this? [indiscernible] Yes, I think you're seeing the scale scaling of the cost structure.

We added one new market last year and the sales infrastructure spend happens right at the outset. So I think our guidance does not assume any new markets, any business development activity. If that happens, we'll update the guidance. But other than that, our job is to continue to scale the cost structure between G and A and sales and marketing. We are fifty year as a public company and you should expect that. And so you're seeing the operating leverage play out really nicely. So that's one of the key levers to drive EBITDA growth.

Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Mok with Barclays.

Hi, good morning. The cash on the balance sheet is now approaching $500,000,000 Hoping you could provide a bit more color on the M and A pipeline and are you diligencing a lot of opportunities and passing on them or just having seen any opportunities that are thus far. Then relatedly, are there any uses of building cash, if not M and A? Thanks.

Yes.

Appreciate the question, Andrew.

So yes, you could expect us to look at everything. In the space. We have 23 analysts covering us. You can expect we have 23 plus bankers covering us as well. And so given our strong financial position in this environment in our space, We're looking at all transactions that come across the table. As we noted, the pipeline is really robust. However, we're going to be disciplined It's been a pretty tough environment out there for value based entities and lot of revisions in estimates and performance, both publicly as you've seen, but also the private markets. So I think it's just finding the right opportunities. We'll continue to be very aggressive, but very disciplined in how we pursue those and take advantage of the situation But you should expect us to deploy the capital enter new states, increase density in existing states, We've said Privia, we're looking at medical groups, risk entities, MSO entities, given our model. I think we can be very flexible. So we'll continue to look for opportunities to deploy capital to create shareholder value in that remains the primary focus. Obviously, the strong balance sheet also helps us have sufficient capital to prepare for any unseen risks that might come, regulatory changes and so on and so forth to support our medical group and risk entities.

So that's a big part of the capital that we We have So I think it puts us in overall in very strong the stock price deviates fundamentally from what we think is intrinsic value, we have the option to return capital holders as well.

Your next question comes from the line of Josh Raskin with Nephron Research. Please go ahead.

Yes, thanks. Good morning. So it seems as though other companies in the sectors, I think, are looking maybe to sort of evolve their business models and take less risk as especially in their initial contracts with providers and plans. I heard one competitor speak to a glide path to risk now it sounded very familiar. So guess my question, does that help Pervia as plans and providers are getting more used to that sort of as you guys talk about this path to RIF risk methodology? Or you think that puts competitors on sort of better footing now And then I just wanted to make sure I heard just a follow-up. Did you say you were generating positive contract Yes. Appreciate the questions, Josh. So, take them in order. So, on the first one, look, I think we've been very consistent since five years that we've been public [indiscernible] you have to distinguish between the willingness to take risk and the ability to take risk. We've always had the ability to take risk. We do so at the highest level in MSSP, as you know. We do capitation in MA with a small book. I don't think providers wake up every day saying we want to do full risk.

I think there was a lot of noise in the space by entities that jumped into full risk. And I think it's a misconception that perform well in value based care, to perform well in MA, you necessarily need to take full risk. We've always said we prefer models where the payer has skin in the game, an entity like Privia that's enabling Heskin in the game and the doctors have risk entities have skin in the game. And we share it upside and down and I think that keeps everybody honest. So I just think it doesn't change our position in the marketplace. I can't speak for competitors. I think learned a hard lesson. Ultimately, our job is to take as much risk than pays us and pays our medical groups and risk entities by the payers to assume that risk. I don't think not trying to do venture capital in public markets. You don't need to lose money. To do all this good work. And if we don't come across a fair contract from a bear, that compensates our medical groups for the work that they're doing, We're not going to take downside risk. It's pretty much simple.

And I think the Privia and I don't think it changes our position. In fact, I think it validates our approach. And makes our position much stronger. And then secondly, on the MA book, yes, as you can see from the disclosure on our press release, we made a small about 2% gross gross margin on the capitated book. And we'd said last year, we had renegotiated a couple of contracts at the beginning of last year. Much ahead of the curve. And the one that we remained, we were hoping that we'll make money and we're glad that we performed really well. It was better than expected and that led to some of the outperformance in the results that you see. And that's our hope. If we are doing taking downside risk, the objective is you do it to make money. Pretty binary at the end of the day.

Your next question comes from the line of Whit Mayo with Leerink Partners. Please go ahead.

Hey, thanks. I just wanted to hear more about the factors influencing the flatness this year in shared savings. Don't know if this is all just B28, the respectfulness that you have around utilization, cost But are there any other changes with the benchmark methodology that's concerning you? And then I'm I'm wondering in the event that ACO REACH doesn't get extended in sunsets, is this a thing that could be potentially good for you with new groups that may be looking to affiliate with with your platform?

Yes. Thanks for the questions, Whit. So look, I think we've taken a pretty prudent approach last couple of years. Given all the factors we outlined. Whether it's utilization trends, V28, STAR scores, benefit design changes, so on and so forth. And it's across the book. I think our guidance assumes prudence that we won't grow shared savings meaningfully year over year. We were able to do do so. We had the same assumption last year and then we outperformed and that led to better than expected results. So I think we're adopting the same approach. This guidance does not assume any meaningful step up in shared savings. And if we are wrong, we are hoping that there's upside than downside as we've consistently seen with our results over the past five years. So So I just think it's that it's across all the programs. Utilization hurts us if you're taking risk. We've said you got to manage that risk. So I think it's more prudence across the board versus any one particular program from that perspective. And then to your second question, yes, as you know, CMS obviously allows a risk entity or a tax ID medical group to choose between MSSB or ACO REACH today.

So So we think there'll be convergence over time in some of these programs. MSSB has done really well reaches in this initial stage. And if that sunsets, I just think providers ultimately are [indiscernible] patients and their spend and would like to get paid for doing that good work. Irrespective of the program. So ultimately, I think if there's convergence, we'll hopefully tend to benefit or capture some of that volume. We don't do reach today because we think we performed really well in MSSP. And if all our ACOs or states, we've chosen to continue to add attribution in MSSP because we think that's the better outcome to save dollars for the government, taxpayers, perform well for our medical groups and risk entities. And if there's convergence, I think it will just validate our position even more.

Your next Your next question comes from the line of Jalandra Singh with Turis Securities. Please go ahead.

Yes. Thank you, and good morning, and thanks for taking my questions and congrats on a good quarter. I wanted to follow-up on higher than expected EBITDA to cash flow conversion in 2024. You guys called out certain outgoing cash payments maybe provide a little bit more color there. And is this the reason why you are expecting the conversion at 80% this year compared to like 90% you expected heading into 2024?

Yes.

Thanks for the question. Question. Yes, it's really just sort of the timing of payments and where the liabilities and the cash ended up at the end of the year. I would say next year is really driven more based on the the fact that we run out of some of our NOLs. And we're going to have to start paying some taxes next year and that's really going to decrease the percentage. So So Might it next year have been a little bit higher than 80 without that without the great year this year perhaps.

But we feel very confident in our 80% guidance. Your next question comes from the line of A. J. Rice with UBS.

Please go ahead.

Hi, everybody. I look at your guidance, EBITDA, you're expecting within the range of sort of 16% to 22% growth.

I know every year there's puts and takes. I wondered if you would comment on What do you see as some of the key variables that will move you around within that range? And is there anything that's different as you're heading into 25% from what you normally see And if I could squeeze in a variance on that anything in Washington with all the uncertainty I don't perceive you've got a lot of things at risk there. But anything you're looking at that they're discussing that could be an opportunity or a challenge for you? Yes. I appreciate the questions, A. J. So on the first one, look for context, our guidance is very, very narrow. It's a $5,000,000 range. That underscores the predictability and the consistency of our model and there's not a big range from a dollar perspective. And then there's nothing new this year than it's pretty much rinse and repeat. The variables are the same. We have a very predictable fee for service book. We've sold a lot of the providers that will get implemented already As you know, there's a five, six month lag.

And so the fee per service book is extremely predictable. The only source of variability is the value based book. And that's actual performance versus our accruals. And you've seen from our track record, you can see Slide seven, seven year track record that we've been pretty and we follow the same methodology as I alluded to in the answer to the previous questions. So I think that's going to be the only source and that's why you have the range. If the value base book performs better than expected, then like last year, hopefully, we'll be at the at or above the end of the range. And if not, then we have the range. So that's pretty much underscores that narrow guidance. On your second question, look, I don't think there's anything specific with our model supporting community based physicians. It's the lowest cost of setting in healthcare. The administration in its first term was really supportive of all the programs we are in. We don't expect them to change that. And so there's nothing currently that we've heard that impacts our results. If something changes, obviously, we'll let you know. But I think we'll continue to get good support from CMS here for all the programs that we participate in.

Your next question comes from the line of Jack Slevin with Jefferies.

Hey, thanks for taking the question and congrats on the really strong print.

Pretty simple one for me here. I guess just want to zero in on the care margin guidance. And running quick numbers. It looks to me like it's taking in a 6% drop in a sort of simplified view if you just look at care margin per average implemented provider and I know that doesn't take all the moving pieces into account, but [indiscernible] what are the scenarios you guys think you'd have to look at to upside the care margin and the EBITDA guidance for the full year?

Thanks.

Yes, good question, Jack. So it's predominantly the flat the flat assumption in value based care shared savings. So So that's one factor and the other is the mix between physicians and ABBs and nurse practitioners. So that impacts it a little bit given our scale, but not too much. And then obviously the mix between primary care Peds, OBs and then specialists. And then how that flows down into care margin from practice collections. So I think overall we're looking to increase operating leverage down to EBITDA and free cash and you can see that increasing But I think that's flat that that's mainly driven by the first factor, which is if shared savings assumptions is flat, And as you know, our take rate is 40%.

On every dollar of shared savings. That is leading to that [indiscernible] Hopefully, we'll get leverage in future years as that improves.

Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Garrow with Stephens Inc.

Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking the questions.

I thought maybe we'd check-in on the Care Partners program and just curious how provider interest has trended in that model and similarly where previous level of interest is in not requiring providers switch electronic health record systems to join the Privia platform.

Yes, appreciate the question. So I think that's progressing well. As you know, we bought Community Medical Group in Connecticut, which one of the largest IPAs, and that's a state where we're starting to implement providers on the same technology stack. But a large portion of those are not on the platform yet. I think over time our hope is we'll migrate as many of our providers onto the same tech stack into our medical groups. But that's a good lever for us to continue to expand get attribution, perform in value based care and over time get providers on the integrated stack. So I think it's performing pretty well as we had expected. It's all embedded in the results. We don't break it out. It's part of the core business. And so I think it's gone pretty well as planned.

Your next question comes from the line of Matthew Gillmor with KeyBanc. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning. Thanks for the question. I wanted to ask about the physician fee schedule. I don't think Congress addressed the the cut that started this year at this point. There's obviously a lot of bipartisan support addressed hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Curious how you were thinking about that from a guidance perspective. Is that even something that's material enough to move anything either way? And if it doesn't get addressed, is that something that actually helps drive additional providers onto the platform? Yes, I appreciate the question, Matt.

So, I mean, we've embedded our best estimate into the guidance. With whatever puts and takes. I think we have a lot of offsetting factors in there too. So So it's nothing material that we like to call out. And if it's better, it's better. I think look, fundamental value proposition just does not change with that particular variable. If anything, all of these pressures further validate the need for providers to join a very large integrated medical group risk entity and the value prop that Privia has to offer. So think nothing fundamentally changes. Either way.

Your next question comes from the line of Richard Close with Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.

Yes. Congratulations. Thanks for the question. Maybe digging into Washington a little bit more, specifically Parz, how do you think about maybe the level of uninsured increasing if subsidies go away and then the potential changes in Medicaid. How does that impact your business? Obviously, Yes, I appreciate the question, Richard. So as you know, we don't have a a big Medicaid book We have about 97,000 lives in in some value based programs. Our mix represents the demographics in each state. Across our 14 states and DC. So it's pretty diversified. Same with the uninsured So I think we'll just see we went through the whole Medicaid redetermination and you saw like we can capture some of those patients and lives into other parts of the book, whether it's commercial, MA, duels, whatever it is. On the individual exchange. So I just think it depends on how it all plays out what the impact is. Do patients actually move in a particular direction and that'll be again state by state. So it's just tough to Privia, but we don't have big exposure to Medicaid or to the uninsured yet.

Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Daniels with William Blair. Please go ahead.

Yes.

Hey, guys. This is Jack Sant on for Ryan Congrats on the strong year. I know you called out the cash balance where you can use some of that to help enter new markets and build density. But and your guide does not include the new market entries, but is there any one area that you're targeting more or you should see more growth from, like whether it is entering new markets versus market growth? Just kind of curious what your mindset is and kind of parsing out the difference there. Thanks.

Yes. Thanks, Jack. So look, I think all the sales and marketing expense for existing markets is fully expensed in the P and L. So I think you're seeing power of the platform in that we can continue to grow organically in existing states pretty well.

Without deploying capital. I think in existing states where we could use capital is to just double down or increase density, if there are opportunities that arise. And that's very value accretive because we already have an infrastructure. And then a lot of capital obviously predominantly the business development is getting into new states which we've consistently done. Over the past as you can see on Slide seven, we've consistently added new states every year. And then we've absorbed any incremental costs within our guide. I think that's pretty important to also underscore. So I think if you look at some of the years like 2022, 2023, we continue to absorb a of those costs within the guide that we gave. So I think our guidance is pretty prudent assuming no impact of BD. Obviously, if we deploy significant capital, that will come with incremental collections, care margin, EBITDA, will flow this year, some will flow next year. We'll just see when we can get those deals done and if and when that happens, we'll update guidance. But does not include any impact.

Your next question comes from the line of Matt Shea with Needham.

Hey, thanks for taking the question.

I guess kind of as a follow-up to the last question, it was great to hear earlier this year that 70% of the new provider pipeline is coming from referrals pushing down CACs and payback periods. So now that referrals have reached this level, is this changing your philosophy at all?

New market expansion versus tapping on the gas to grow more in existing markets and maybe as a follow-up, as we think about new markets like Indiana, along with the the referral flywheel to get going. Yes. Appreciate the question, Matt. So on the first one, look, we're going to be aggressive everywhere, existing states, new states, just given the business model is very proven The unit economics are really Privia. We know what to do, how to do it. We have the capital So I think you'll see us pursue both.

So we're going to step on the gas in every which way to just continue to flywheel. And then then each market evolves. So those conversion rates are in the most mature markets as you would expect. Some of the new markets, I think that takes time to develop. So, I just think each market evolves over time. But I think we can have referrals across markets too. We can have bigger groups join us as they hear about the success story of their colleagues in other states. So I think we're pursuing all aspects, all levers to continue grow and scale the business. You're seeing that in the results despite challenging value based environment, we're continuing to to grow EBITDA, to grow free cash all the way down to the the P and L. So I think that's just reflective of how this is playing out and we're pretty proud of the accomplishment.

Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Langston with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

Thanks. Good morning. In the 2025 guidance, providers, it looks like expected to grow around 10%, but lives around 7.5% year over year.

I guess, despite kind of the strong 2024 provider pickup. 2024 actually the lives Growth was over the provider growth. So just wondering if that's an expectation of a slower ramp up of lives once you get those providers onboarded or anything else going on there? Thanks.

Appreciate the question. I mean, it's a wider range this year from one three million to 1,400,000 lives. So So at the high end, it's 11.5% growth.

We'll just see how it plays out. It's law of large numbers are playing out. So I think the numbers you reflected were at the midpoint, but we'll just see how it plays out. It's also influenced by we're building multi specialty groups. And so primary care to specialty mix influences that a little bit. As the attribution predominantly happens with PCPs as you know. And then to some extent with OVs and beads. I think it's a broader range, so we'll just see how it plays out. But usually, it kind of is pretty consistent Your next question comes from the line of David Larsen with BDIG. Please go ahead.

Hey, congrats on the good quarter and the great year. Did I hear you say there's no new market entry costs in the guide for 25%.

And and why not? You usually enter a couple of markets, you get a bunch of cash on the balance sheet. And then also did I also hear you say that the gross margin for cap revenue was 2%? It's great that it's positive, but that still sounds kind of low, right? I would assume a negative EBITDA margin if the gross margin is 2%. Why not just sort of exit those contracts? Thanks very much.

Yes. Thanks, David. So on the first one, yes, just to correct. The guidance assumes no incremental new markets.

We obviously entered a few new markets over the last couple of years. So those are still we are investing in those as we noted in our prepared remarks. And all of those costs are fully embedded in the guidance. And then I think if you if you refer to Page 10 of the press release, you can see we break out the capitated revenue and then the total claims incurred. So you can see that we actually generated positive contribution margin in that book. So that's what we were alluding to.

Your next question comes from the line of Adam Rohn with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Hey, thanks for the question. I'd like to unpack more of the shared savings commentary you gave, particularly on MSSP.

And so you mentioned in 2024, you had initially expected minimal accrual increases for shared savings, but then it ended up coming in better So first, was that more so on the 2023 true up or was that based on what accruing for 2024?

And then second, it'd be helpful if you could share somewhat directionally what you're seeing on trend for MFSP in 2024 and how that compares to what people are saying in ACR reach is like a high single digit trend? And if that what you're kind of assuming in 2025, if you're assuming similar trends continue in 2025 versus 2024 accruals?

Yes, I appreciate the question. So look, I mean, we don't obviously give guidance by year and by accrual versus actual. But in general, it's a combination of both. So in every year, we are truing up accruals versus actual performance for the previous year. As the results come in and then adjust our accruals in the current year based on the data we see. So that's fundamental to the question you asked. Our methodology is the same. Our assumptions are the same that we want to be very prudent with the trends we witness. If we are wrong, we we hope that there's positive upside versus negative downside That's how we look at when we guide. And so I think the outperformance was again a combination. 23 versus 24. There was some prior period stuff, there was some linear stuff, it balances across different lines of business. We got commercial, we got MSSP, we got MA. So their puts and takes across all that balances itself out and we're adopting the same approach this year. I can't specifically comment on trend in Reach versus MSSP. Really by geography, by book of business.

By state, based on regional benchmarks. How they change, so on and so forth. HCC trends in those states, And so we're just looking at the data that we get from CMS each quarter, each rolling quarter. And that influences true ups on versus how we accrued for in prior periods and then how that informs us for a adjusting accruals in the current year. It's a pretty dynamic exercise. I mean our healthcare economic teams data analytics teams just does a fantastic job with a pretty large book. I think you've seen that very consistently with our results. Over the last seven years. I mean Slide seven just speaks for itself. So I just think we're going to keep following the same approach. And just see how it plays out and the diversification of the book really helps us mitigate any puts and takes in any particular state or any particular program.

Your next question comes from the line of Michael with Baird. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Just wanted to follow-up on that last question. So on an MSSP, I guess specifically CNS published their kind of perspective trend for 23% to 24 And I know everyone is saying it's significantly below emerging trend, right, ACR reach like you just mentioned, but you found very confident based on on what you're seeing internally. Does that mean what they publish for the ACPT is in line with what you're actually seeing for your own ACOs and I guess how does the impact [indiscernible] is there any potential go forward risk if rates do remain understated versus trend? Or I'm guessing maybe it's more in line than what people are assuming Thank you.

Yes. So I think it's important to recognize the ACPD impact is on your ACOs. Not older ACOs. So I think there's some of that that you have to factor in We have I think one new ACO that's impacted a little bit. Just given the gestation of these ACOs over time. So again, our book is very diversified. All those trends are factored into the guidance. Then it's our relative performance versus the benchmark. The ACOs rebase every five years, So that happens over time with our different ACOs. I mean, we've been in the program ten years. So So I think we just have a methodology that we follow. We look at the balance book and we embed all that in the guidance. And then we hope that we are right. And there's a track record. So think it fundamentally changes what we've done. If there are puts and takes, we absorb it. Then try to outperform based on good clinical performance in our practices and other levers that we can pull. And so I think we're not doing anything different than we've done in past years.

Your next question comes from the line of Constantine Davides with Citizens JMP. Thanks.

Parse, there's a number of competing medical group strategies out there in the marketplace that haven't been as successful as yours. How much is technology a different [indiscernible] enabler for you in supporting the your growth in terms of just leveraging the Athena backbone and I'm assuming now being one of their largest partners in terms of driving your ability to scale quickly efficiently at this pace across as you mentioned a pretty diverse set of providers, states, payers, etcetera.

Yes. Thanks, Constancey, for the question. I think it's a great question, but it's much more broader than just the tech stack.

I think how we've differentiated ourselves, we've been saying this for five years since we are public, There are not too many entities that are creating integrated medical groups risk entities, and a full tech and services platform altogether.

In one shop.

Having providers join an integrated medical group on the same platform with the same governance structure where we are deeply embedded in the workflows deeply embedded from a technology standpoint, not only just EMR and RCM, but everything you build on top of that and then having a risk entity that is fully embedded and is supporting that medical group to take risk And we are seeing the data day in, day out across all lines of business That's a very unique model. I don't think other models deeply embedded in the workflow. I think you've seen how that impacts performance. They are relying on payers. They're relying on on a very light layer on top. They don't have the governance, the deep governance that we do. So I think it's the combination of those elements of our business model and then obviously the embedded technology stack that allows us to really work very closely with our practices organize them in small pods and influence results. So I think it's all those factors that we have fundamentally built this business in a very thoughtful manner from day one and you're seeing the fruits of that in empirical results over seven, eight years.

A lot of companies went public, there are a lot of private companies out there that got funded. And it's very easy to just go take risk and on a few lives and support Brack very light manner. I think that just plays itself out as you're seeing as this industry evolves. So I think it's probably a very thoughtful question if you just look at the results that we've produced. Consistently over seven, eight years that you can see publicly now that demonstrate the validity of this business model. I think it's a combination of all of those factors. And that's why providers choose us given that strong value Your next question comes from the line of Daniel Groeslide with Citi.

Hi. Thanks for taking the question. On your capitated book for $25,000,000 are you still assuming around a 2% contribution margin or should we expect some improvement there?

And then as we think about capitation vocab in 2026 and beyond it, it does seem like rates the advance rate was no, it was good and maybe some room for improving that as it goes to final. It seems like bids have been a bit more rational this year. So curious how you're thinking about capitation also in 2026 Yes, I appreciate the question. So obviously, we don't break out guidance any particular program. As we've consistently said, we are in a particular program and we are doing some capitation with the that we'll have positive contribution margin. I think it's tough to predict whether it'll be the same repeat from last year. I think we're going to be prudent in that book.

The environment continues to be challenging as we alluded to with all the factors. So we'll see how it plays this year, If we are in it, we are hoping we'll make money. We'll just see how it plays out.

During the course of the year. And then on the broader question, look, I think this goes back to the first or second question that was asked. We continue to distinguish in our minds this need to take full risk and capitation to do well in MA. I think [indiscernible] we think a shared risk methodology with the bears where everybody is interest aligned is the right model. We have the ability to take as much risk. I just don't think the payers given the pressures they are facing, will hand over contracts that are slam dunk for provider groups just to assume full risk and make money. In this environment with all those factors. I mean, you've seen every payer through their results and all the pressures. So it's pretty well documented by all of you on the call. So I don't think you should expect us to ramp up our capitation book. I think if there are opportunities where we can do so, where we feed see a good risk reward ratio and there's a fair payment for us to assume that risk, we will. Otherwise, our preference is to share the risk with the payer across all aspects of the book, whether it's it's Part B, it's Part C, it's PCP spends, specialist spend, inpatient spend.

I think we take as much risk as we can in the things we control. And if we don't control certain things, then we're not going to take risk or share it with the payer. But our hope is if we are taking risk we're going to make money. Otherwise, there's no need to take risk. We're making money for the payer, we're making money for our medical groups, we're making money for our shareholders. So a pretty simple concept. At the end of the day, again, it's very binary outcome.

Your next question comes from the line of Jessica Tassen with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the question. So this one is maybe for David. Can you just help us understand why the 4Q upside to the high end of the implied platform contribution guide didn't see more of a kind of complete flow through to adjusted EBITDA upside in 4Q. Were there any one time items in OpEx And I guess just why wasn't the platform contribution upside be really high incremental margin and drop kind of straight through to EBITDA? Thanks, Jess.

A relatively complicated question, I think. I think what you're asking is why is the EBITDA increasing greater than contribution margin platform contribution. If that's the case, it's due to how our sales costs and our G and A costs run through for the year. And again, both of them were I would say, positively or negatively impacted depending on how you want to look at it. It from how we did for the year. So I don't know if 100% answer your question yet. You ask a lot in there. If not, we can follow-up after.

Yes, Jess, I think we had a great sales year. So obviously the sales cost in Q4 were higher as we grew our commissions and then the company did pretty well. So some of the bonus accruals are higher than than originally anticipated. So all that kind of just gets factored into EBITDA versus platform contribution.

Your next question comes from the line of Tao Chiu with Macquarie.

Just to continue on the point about your willingness to take risk, Looking back in 2019, you renegotiated some MA contracts and your BDC share of total collection came down 7%.

Versus the previous year. Part, I think you mentioned that the BBC environment remains challenged [indiscernible] and MSSP is expected to be flat Any changes contemplated to any of the at risk MA contract you have today should we expect the mix shift to further decline towards FFT And if so, it will be helpful to size that any potential decline in the mix, active or passive? You.

Yes, I appreciate the question. So yes, we don't anticipate any changes We renegotiated whatever we had to beginning of last year. We are continuing with the capitated book we have. It's a pretty small piece of the business. Like we said, we're solving for positive contribution margin. And you have to recognize, I mean, just going from full risk to partial risk, it's all revenue recognition. The doctors don't go anywhere, the lives don't go anywhere, our ability to manage those lives does not change. So that decline was fundamentally top line gets recognized if you take full risk versus you don't take full risk. So we're solving for positive care margin positive contribution margin, positive EBITDA, positive free cash flow.

So but there's no change contemplated from the book we have today.

Your last question comes from the line of Craig Jones with Stifel. Please go ahead.

Thanks, guys. Thanks for the may ask a question here. So Wanted to hit on free cash flow conversion. You've been over 100% for the last handful of years here. You're guiding to 80%, I think, through from a combination of working capital maybe and then starting to pay cash taxes. So as you look at maybe more in a normalized year, where your full cash tax and let's just say no working capital, where does that conversion kind of shake out? Thanks.

Yes. I mean, it's going to kind of shake out I would say, close to the 80%. As we get rid of all of our NOLs is probably going to shake out a little bit lower than that. If we don't take into account any working capital adjustments. So I would probably say in the 70% to 80% range is sort of a final resting place assuming they're working capital adjustments.

We do not have any more questions at this time. Gentlemen, you may continue.

Your continued interest and support of Privyat Privia look forward to speaking with you again in the near future.

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. You may now disconnect. Please wait. The conference will begin shortly.