The E.W. Scripps Company Price & Performance (SSP)

Thank you, Kevin. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for a discussion of the EW Scripps Company's financial results and business strategies. You can visit scripps.com for more information and a link to the replay of this call. Reminder that our conference call and webcast include forward looking statements based on management's current outlook and actual results may differ materially. Factors that may cause them to differ are outlined in our SEC filings. We do not intend to update any forward looking statements we will make today. Included on this call will be a discussion of certain non GAAP financial measures that are provided [indiscernible] to assist management and the public in their analysis and evaluation of the company. These metrics are not formulated in accordance with GAAP are not meant to replace GAAP financial measures and may differ from other companies' uses or formulations. Included in our earnings release are the reconciliations of non GAAP financial measures to the GAAP measures reported in our financial statements. We'll hear this morning from Scripps' President and CEO, Adam Simpson and then Chief Financial Officer, Jason Combs. Here's Adam.

Morning, everybody, and thanks for joining us.

I'll start this morning by making sure you saw the information we put out yesterday in an eight ks detailing the binding commitments we have to refinance our revolving credit facility and our 2026 and 2028 term loans. I wanted to thank you for your patience a few weeks ago when we opted to delay releasing earnings to wrap up this work.

Jason will be along shortly to discuss the details.

This morning, we're reporting terrific fourth quarter and full year 2024 results. A strong move down in year end leverage and really meaningful progress on performance improvement for Scripps networks that we first told you about last year. All of this progress comes as a result of the company's focus on transformation. But before we discuss Scripps' performance, I want to start high level with an assessment of how the changes in Washington spell opportunity for our industry for scripts, and for our investors.

The appointment of Brendan Carr to serve as Chairman of the Federal Communications federal government's attitude toward local broadcast television. Carr has been a vocal advocate for reducing regulatory constraints and he has expressed intent to revisit and potentially relax existing ownership limits for local TV stations. This free market policy shift could present new opportunities for us and our peers to strengthen the operating performance of our business through in market and company consolidation. A change is long overdue.

The current FCC ownership rules restricting the number of stations a single company can own both within a market and nationwide, run counter to the original aim of the rules. To preserve competition and a wide range of viewpoints. In fact, given how much fragmentation has occurred in the journalism and media landscape following the digital revolution, [indiscernible] the current ownership restrictions are creating local broadcast group economics that threaten to silence the very voices they were designed to protect. When these worlds were created, back before World War II, a local broadcast TV station competed with a few other stations a newspaper or two and maybe a few radio stations for news audiences and advertisers that wanted to reach them. Today, a plethora of voices comes through digital platforms, social media, streaming services and a wide range of news outlets that follow America does not lack access to information and opinion. And yet the rules that govern our business have not kept up. Putting our industry and local journalism itself at an unfair disadvantage. Easing The federal ownership in this modern media ecosystem. With economies of scale, we will increase our ability to invest in local locally created news.

We'll continue to be there for them during severe weather, natural disasters and all of the other times of crisis and joy connecting our communities to important local information. And will be the platform Americans can continue to rely on to bring people together around live sports, for free, because these are the things that matter most to people. At Scripps, if the government sees fit to modernize the rules, you should expect us to lean The profile deepen our connection to the communities we serve and most definitely unlock greater value for shareholders. Now, we'd like to turn to the plan we're already executing at Scripps to reduce our debt improve operating performance and set the stage for company growth. First, we're very pleased this week to be announcing a significant round of debt refinance [indiscernible] Jason will give you the details in a moment, And I'd like to reinforce that successfully managing our debt structure and pay down is one important aspect of the plan we are executing. We were able to bring down our leverage ratio to 4.8 times by the end of the year. That's nearly a full turn below the end of 2023. In addition, we continue to make strong progress the company's financial performance.

To this end, for example, the company has already taken the necessary steps to improve the Scripps Networks division margin by 400 to 600 basis points this year. Last year, we we significantly reduced Scripps News' operating costs and we reduced headcount and expenses elsewhere in the division. We reported a fourth quarter margin of 28% and it would have been even better we hadn't had a little noise from a The time charge. We are on track to continue Networks margin improvement in 2025, something you should see implied in our first quarter guide. In the Local Media division, we achieved a record political advertising revenue, almost 30% higher than our twenty twenty presidential election year revenue. Remarkably, more than 80% of these dollars came from only six states. To me, this reinforces our value in reaching local voters in a highly partisan political climate.

Looking ahead to this year, we are totally focused on continuing the transformation of our business. Leaning into the connection we make between audiences and advertisers across platforms, locally and nationally, around our news and programming. And nowhere is that connection more potent than through Scripps Sports. Be it through our own acquired sports rights or the programming we deliver locally with our network partners, linear television dominates with live sports. In the Scripps Networks division, last year we told you that we closed the success [indiscernible] selling out more than 75% of our sports inventory. Allowing Scripps to buck the industry trend and beat peer performance thanks to increases in demand and volume. That laid the foundation for 2025. And now as we head into the beginning of the NWSL and WNBA seasons, ION's sports inventory is commanding advertising rates that are more than two times its non sports inventory.

Scripps is undoubtedly delivering on its promises. We are greatly improving operating performance as well as our balance sheet decreasing our debt and extending the maturity profile and positioning ourselves to capitalize on the opportunities of deregulation. Our commitment to this plan we are executing has never been stronger. Now here's Jason. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. I'd like to start my remarks today by addressing the major milestone Maurice this week in our debt refinancing efforts. [indiscernible] announced yesterday that we've executed a transaction support agreement with the majority of our twenty twenty six and our 2028 term loan holders. This cares for our nearest term maturity while also extending a portion of the 2028 term loan at favorable economics. We also entered into commitment letters with accounts receivables securitization providers for a new AR securitization facility. [indiscernible] are a few of the details. The refinancing we announced yesterday includes a two year extension on our 2026 term loan, and a one year extension on a portion of our 2028 term loan.

And it includes an AR securitization that will be used to pay down a portion of our 2026 term loan at a very favorable rate. Despite the current elevated rate environment, I am pleased to share that these transactions are only increasing our blended cost of debt by less The one In addition, have come to an agreement with our revolver banks to extend The portion of our revolving credit facility through mid-twenty twenty seven once the transaction closes.

This allows us to maintain the liquidity needed for our business operations. [indiscernible] the completion of this work in the coming weeks, ScrippsFlow have retired or extended the maturity of up to $1,500,000,000 of debt [indiscernible] We've also been in discussions with an ad hoc group of our holders of our other near term maturities. In addition, we continue to prioritize using free cash flow to reduce the amount of our debt. This good news follows our strong finish to 2024. [indiscernible] We completed affiliation agreements with NBC and CBS, We strategically reduced expenses. We closed on $20,000,000 of property sales and reached an agreement for another $50,000,000 We paid down nearly $350,000,000 in debt and we significantly reduced our leverage ratio. In fact, the revenue from political advertising our expense management and the debt reduction drove our leverage ratio down by nearly a full turn on a year over year basis to 4.8 times. Just a reminder, we ended Q2 at six 6.0x and the third quarter at 5.1x. So we were pleased to end 2024 with such a meaningful improvement in our leverage ratio as we move back down toward the company's historically lower range. Now I'd like to go through our Local Media and Scripps Networks division's highlights for the fourth quarter and Q1 guidance and then share full year 2025 guidance on a few items.

Let's begin our look back our Local Media division results. In the fourth quarter, Local Media division revenue was up a whopping 34% The year ago period. That compares favorably to our guide of up in the low to mid-thirty percent range. We received a record amount of fourth quarter political advertising revenue $174,000,000 Our full year 2024 political advertising revenue came in at $43,000,000 We The record amount of political advertising in many of our markets did cause the displacement of core advertising revenue. Core advertising for the fourth quarter came in about 11% below Q4 twenty twenty three at $147,000,000 Local distribution revenue was down 5% year over year as we had no KTV contract renewals in the quarter. For the full year, distribution revenue was up about 2% in line with our expectations. [indiscernible] total subscriber base declined about 5% during that period and was about flat from the third quarter of twenty twenty four. Local main expenses increased 5.7% from the prior year quarter in line with our guidance of up mid single digits due to the expected cost of new local sports rights as well as modest step ups in existing Big four network contracts. [indiscernible] compared to $86,000,000 in Q4 of twenty twenty three. [indiscernible] the first quarter, we expect Local Media division revenue to be down in the high single digit range with core revenue down in the low to mid single digit range.

We expect Q1 local media expenses to be up in the low single digit percent range. Now let's turn to the Scripps Networks division fourth quarter results and guidance for the first quarter of twenty twenty five. [indiscernible] the fourth quarter, Scripps Networks revenue was $216,000,000 down 6% from the year ago quarter and consistent with our guidance. [indiscernible] Starting in Q1, we'll have mostly lapped that comp. We continue to feel the impact of streaming services growing advertising inventory but the growth in the fourth quarter is a sign that we're beginning to see that pressure moderate and we've seen even better trends as we moved into the first quarter. In Q4, Scripps Networks division expenses decreased by more than 6% due to tight cost controls and the reduction of Scripps News operations. Actually, we had guided for Scripps Networks to be down in the high single digits and we would have met that guidance if it were not for a non recurring charge we took in the quarter. As a reminder, we expect the Networks division margins to improve by at least hundred to 600 basis points in 2025. And for the first quarter, we're trending towards the high end of that range.

For the first quarter, we expect Scripps Networks division revenue to be down in the mid single digit percent range, for Networks expenses to be down in the mid teens range due to aggressive expense management across variety of functions in The segment. Turning to the segment labeled other in the fourth quarter, we reported a loss of $8,300,000 Shared services and corporate expenses for Q4 were $24,700,000 the first quarter, we expect that line to be about $22,000,000 For the fourth quarter, the income attributable to shareholders As a reminder, As a reminder that The preferred stock dividend has a negative impact on earnings per share even when we don't pay it. This quarter, it reduced EPS by $0.17 In addition, fourth quarter results included a [indiscernible] in restructuring charges primarily attributable to Scripps News reduction and an investment write off. The combined impact of those items decreased the income attributable to shareholders by $0.09 per share. In terms of our real estate sales, we have told you to expect about $60,000,000 in transactions this winter and that we now anticipate closing a little over $70,000,000 We have completed a $20,000,000 sale of transmission towers and reached an agreement on the $40,000,000 sale of our television station building in West Palm Beach.

We'll be moving our WPTV station operations to a leased facility And we have two more transactions pending. At December 31, cash and cash equivalents totaled $24,000,000 We paid down $330,000,000 on our revolving credit facility leaving it with zero balance by year end Our total debt at quarter end was $2,600,000,000 I'll wrap things up now with guidance on a few full year items. For 2025, we expect to pay cash interest between $175,000,000 and $185,000,000 cash taxes of $25,000,000 to $30,000,000 capital expenditures of $55,000,000 to $60,000,000 and depreciation and amortization of $150,000,000 We have no required pension contributions. We are executing an aggressive plan for both debt pay down and leverage reduction and we've made significant progress on the execution plan. Operator, we're now ready for questions.

Our first question comes from Dan Kurnos with The Benchmark Company. Your line is open.

Yes. Thank you. Good morning, everybody. First, congrats guys on the refi. Obviously, good business. Adam, just on your FCC commentary, obviously, this has been highly topical for the space.

Two things we saw Gray announced that they had gotten a waiver that should have been approved probably by the last FCC, but hasn't been approved in five years for two big 4s. In a market Is there anything that you guys can do without additional derig that would help the profile? And if there is derig, how do you guys view yourselves from a seller buyer perspective? That's the first question. And then I have a follow-up.

Thank you.

Thanks, Dan. So I think in the prepared remarks, I made it pretty clear that we believe greater scale nationally in market is necessary for the assets to perform their best for shareholders and for us to be able to continue in service to the communities where we operate. And I expect we'll do everything in our power to take advantage of this moment We're certainly engaged in discussions around opportunities to optimize our portfolio improve the performance of the local stations. Opportunities we think we'll be able to take as a result of the change in attitude at the FCC. I'm not sure there has to be a full change in regulations as you saw earlier or last night, the announcement of the waiver think is one way you're going to start to see things break. This is absolutely critical for our ability to continue invest in local journalism and in localism itself. Including live sports. We're committing The work in any way necessary to unlock and maximize shareholder value. As to whether we're a buyer or a seller, I mean, honestly, think we're very, very focused on looking at all opportunities I don't think we have the balance sheet to be a buyer certainly.

And we've told you our highest priority is in deleveraging and paying down debt. But I do expect us to take full advantage of the opportunities to swap and potentially even to sell out of non strategic markets if the opportunity presents itself and it's in the best interest of shareholders. Perfect. And then maybe for your Jason, I guess, just on distribution The year, just remind us how we should be thinking about it gross, And then on the net side, obviously, we've heard some improvement in sub trends. You guys just also did NBC and CBS. So how should we be thinking about net for the next twelve, thirty six months, however you want to couch it? Thank you.

Yes.

So we have about mid-twenty percent of our subscribed ROVAC up for renewal this year. And frankly, there's a lot of negotiating that needs to happen. So we're not giving any kind of full year guide at this The. Since none of those renewals are resetting in Q1. Specific Q1, I would say, since we have nothing reset in you'll see a fairly similar trend to what we saw in Q3 kind of down mid single digits driven by sub churn without any meaningful contract step ups. But I think we'll probably have more to say about that on in future earnings calls once we've kind of got past The negotiations. Any color just on views on sub trends or on the renewals? On the reverse side? Yes. So, I can speak in terms of the sub trend. I think from a sub trend perspective, what we've seen is pretty consistent over the last couple of years down mid single digits. That is what we continue to assume in our forward looking planning. We are optimistic about some of the things we've seen, specifically for example with Charter and some of the subchurn improvements they've shown in recent quarters as a result of sort of their great The bundling of streaming services with traditional pay TV services and hopeful that that actually yields us upside as we move forward.

But to be conservative, we kind of bake a consistent down mid single digits into our run rate. Yes. Dan, it's Adam. On the network affiliation side, as you referenced, we did a couple of deals. And I would say I'm in agreement with my colleagues when I say that the network affiliation renewals have to be structured in a way going forward that acknowledges the changes in the pay TV ecosystem. The networks own strategies to build D2C products. And I would expect these affiliate fees to be headed down and not up. Perfect. Thanks so much for both of you and congrats again on the refi.

Thanks, Dan. Thanks, Dan.

One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from Michael Kupinski with Noble Capital Markets. Your line is open. Yes. I want to also congratulate you on your your great fourth quarter and also your debt pay down for twenty twenty twenty four. I thought that's very strong. I appreciate that. A couple of questions here. I was wondering if you can just kind of give us a little bit more color on core, particularly what is driving core? Perform better in the off election year. I was just wondering, obviously, some macroeconomic turns here, but I was wondering if you can kind of give us some color on what are the categories that are kind of lagging at this point and give us some color on your thoughts on core advertising as we progress through 2025?

Yes. So I can take that. So So Q1 core has certainly been a little weak thus far. We guided to core being down kind of low to mid single digits There's a lot of uncertainty right now. About the economy, the potential impacts on tariffs and what those may have on key categories, for example, automotive. And just the overall ongoing implications from an elevated interest rate and inflation environment, all of this what we're seeing is leading to consumer hesitation and delayed spending decisions. From a category perspective, I would say you're seeing this most heavily impact automotive and retail. Services and home improvement are trending down in Q1 as well, but not to the same magnitude And so we're obviously very focused on keeping a close eye on how the economy reacts as we start to move into Q2 and we're actually working expenses right now to help offset some of that core weakness that we as well as you heard it on our peer calls as well are experiencing in Q1. Your comment around political displacement, I mean, I think that there is an expectation in the back half of the year. You do get a bounce back.

From political displacement and the crowd out that happened given the fact that we had such a record significant record political year last year. But I think there is a question mark that remains on terms of how much of that is offset if there is continued uncertainty economic uncertainty in the marketplace.

Thanks for that color. And another quick question here. Can you provide an update and color on your initiatives to use your broadcast spectrum under the Edge Beam Wireless? And I was just wondering if expect meaningful revenues from this venture and when that might start kicking in? If you could talk a little bit about if there are any associated startup costs associated with it And I think in your press release, you noted that there needs this needs to be ubiquitous across The Entire U. S. Footprint to be rolled out. And I was wondering when do you expect to have 100% coverage of The U. S?

Yes.

Thanks, Mike. So yes, you're referencing Edge Beam. We joined with Nexstar, Sinclair and Gray to launch the joint venture called Edge Beam Wireless and we announced that I think at the end of the end of fourth quarter. The JV brings together four of the most powerful broadcasters into one platform To your point of ubiquity, that platform reaches 97% of U. S. TV households. And for the first time really presents a true nationwide footprint. Which is critical for the development of the data casting marketplace and for The nation's transition to three point zero Edge being sort of comes in an ideal time from a regulatory perspective facilitating the industry's complete switchover. From one point zero to three point zero, which is a very important and necessary step. Chairman Carr has recognized that broadcasters through a platform like Edge Beam can solve myriad of problems for the nation from enhanced GPS for the benefit of national security, which he had just spoken about, I think, last week or the week before. To even efficient CDN solutions for streaming platforms taking off some of the bandwidth crunch that we're starting to see as a result of so much video being sent over streaming.

All of this makes me really bullish on the opportunity for us because we're already starting to get traction with companies that have historically been beholden to expensive five gs or private five gs networks. Because our service offers up a much more efficient alternative. And and one that works in conjunction with five gs. I don't think it's going to be too long before we're sharing more details on revenue and how the marketplace is developing. I wouldn't put revenue in the models for this year, but I do believe not going to be long before we're able to share details on this as as a material revenue line.

And Adam, obviously, you identified like over $7,000,000,000 in a total addressable market. I mean, type of share do you think you anticipate getting in that total addressable market? If you can kind of give us some color on expectations of revenue?

The. So the beauty of the way this has been situated is that Edge beams sit as a middle layer and then those companies that are owners of Edge Beam, ourselves included, along with other affiliates actually create value at the station level or at the at the broadcast group level within commercial agreements back from Edge Beam. I think it's a little early right to determine The. We are just in the middle of recruiting the CEO for Edge Beam, but I can tell you, we've already because each of these parties was already engaged separately in work to catalyze The marketplace, we're already seeing some traction. With folks that are looking to leverage our spectrum. Like I said, I don't think it's going to be much longer before we're able to make a statement about actually seeing some revenue flow back to these companies. I don't think it's going to be modelable material revenue in 2025. But depending on the timeline that we work on with the government on that trends transition, this is beginning to be something I think that represents significant value for investors in years to come.

Terrific. Good luck with that. That's all I have. Thank you.

Thanks, Mike.

One moment for our next question.

Our next question comes from Stephen Kall with Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Thank you. First, just a couple of advertising questions. So on networks, could you just elaborate a little more on the trends you're seeing? I think you said The improving as you've gone through the quarter.

Recently some of the conference commentary very recently has been a little more negative on the macro. So I would just love to hear what you're seeing from an advertiser standpoint and their tone And relatedly, we think about local sports, is there a good way to think about local sports contribution to core revenue growth in 2025? I have a couple of follow ups on the debt. Sure. So I can start. So specific to your question on networks in the ad marketplaces, it's been a bit of a mixed bag on networks as as we move through Q1. We talked last year coming out of the upfront some of the strong results we have, but the majority of that is really tied to to sports. And based on sort of the timing of the WNBA and end of The fiscal seasons, we won't really start seeing the full benefit [indiscernible] and Q3 of this year. In Q4 of last year, when look back at the results that we posted, we saw we definitely saw pricing pressure in both general market and direct response. And while that has improved a little in Q1, it still is being negatively impacted by the uncertainty in e comm right now.

I think the positive trends you referred to there were really on the CTV front where we saw revenue growth sort of ramp back up in Q4. I think we said 16% growth when you kind of adjust out our The programmatic products we sunset. And that is accelerating in Q1 and I would expect from a CTV perspective to see growth more than 30% in Q1. So I think that's sort of the mixed bag. Doctor in general market is still being impacted by the current state of the economy, but connected to The beginning to rebound.

Yes. One thing, Steve, that I would just point out when you sort of generalize based on a peer company performance, Most of our peers are constrained to reaching consumers through cable. And obviously, we all know where that's going. The fact is that Ion's distribution on Pay TV, satellite cable, OTA and connect The makes us a little bit unique in the market place. In fact, we're hearing more and more from general market advertisers as they're planning The, that ubiquity of reach gives us an advantage in taking share in the market. That and our strategy around women's sports, I think, will continue to define us a little bit away from our peers that in the market. You want to talk about local sports contribution core? Yes. What we said last year was that local sports was a 3% to 4% growth in our overall core. Obviously, we're lapping past some of that. We do have one new franchise that will be contributing some growth this year.

Which would be the Florida Panthers. But and so we do expect some growth probably in the low single digit range. But as I alluded to earlier, we expect some growth in in our sports assets. We expect a bounce back from political displacement. But there's a big question mark out there given everything that's going on in discussion on tariffs and what that could do to certain categories on how much that offsets The two areas where we do expect the growth. Thanks for that color. And then Jason, just on the debt, So on the accounts receivable securitization facility, is there anything we need to think about to model that in free cash flow? And is the cost of that in included in your cash interest guide for the year? Or is that outside of that And then also just so you've done a great job now pushing out maturities. I think the next one is the notes due in 2027. If I'm not mistaken, the revolver also comes due in 2027. So is the thinking that between free cash flow and divestitures, you're confident you'll have enough cash to pay down the notes without the revolver and that's why it works to have the revolver currently just through '27.

So I just want to make sure I'm thinking about all that correctly. Thank you.

Yes. So I'll start with the AR securitization. The AR securitization nothing specific to when you're estimating your free cash flow, you need to do The. The interest tied to that and the rate on that is very advantageous for us. It is included within our interest expense that will The you'll see flow through the interest expense guide we gave of $175,000,000 to $185,000,000 Once we close The, the AR securitization does get excluded from our our [indiscernible] leverage metrics and we'll obviously provide some update in terms of once we close the transaction on sort of forward looking leverage estimates. Remind me what your next question was after the AR securitization? The revolver? The 27 maturities and how you're thinking about yes, that timing.

So So we do have the roll out coming due in 2027. We also have our 2027 unsecured bonds. What I can say specific to any near term maturities is first of all, I will just point back, we're really happy and pleased with the results of transaction that we announced yesterday and now look forward to closing that in the coming weeks. And we can say we have been in discussions with an hoc group of holders on some of our other near term maturities. We also do believe that we will generate meaningful cash flow this year and next year The will allow us to manage down the revolver balance as well.

Great. Thank you.

Thanks, Steve.

One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from Shonna Hsu with Barclays. Your line is open.

Thanks for taking my question.

Just to follow-up on the debt question. I know you guys have previously highlighted more comprehensive refi. The 2627%. And obviously, you guys commented that the 27 were left out of the refinancing. Could you give a little bit more color as to why those were left out of the refinancing and how you're thinking about it going forward given the terms of the TSA announced yesterday? There's quite a few more limitations there.

Yes. So I can't really provide any specifics on the strategy or tactics there. I can just point back to the fact that we've we've had discussions with the ad hoc group for other holders and that we are focused and continue to be focused on addressing all of our near term maturities. But I probably at this point can't say anything beyond that.

Okay. Thank you. And then maybe switching gears, how are you guys thinking about the WNBA sports rights renewal coming up later this year? It seems like the women's sports is a part of your strategy So any color on conversations there would be helpful. Thank you.

Yes, sure. Thanks for the question. It's Adam. We do continue to work really constructively with the team. The WNBA and the NBA, both sides are committed to the renewal because we both see the benefits The W has significantly benefited from the reach Scripps brings through ION's distribution on OTA, Pay TV and Fast. No other network or streaming partner can offer them that exposure. And I expect we'll be able to share more news on the The on the weeks ahead Last year's season validated the entire hypothesis we have that American fans would have no trouble finding the W and WSL on on Ion. Women's Sports has successfully brought in a younger, more diverse and affluent demographic to iON. And this has resulted in advertising fees, as I said in my prepared remarks, The significantly higher than our typical programming and an excellent performance As we get closer to the tip of the season, I expect we'll have a lot more to share on the renewal in the weeks ahead.

Thank you.

Our next question comes from Craig Huber with Huber Research Partners. Your line is open. Great. Thank you. I've got a few questions. I'll just do them one at a time, if I could, please. Can you talk a little bit further about the negotiations with your broadcast networks here I think, Adam, you said you expected The payments to come down here. So I'm curious if you could maybe touch on, are they getting more variable cost in nature and or the prices you're paying actually coming down on apples to apples basis? Just want clarify that a little bit.

I mean, I'm not sure, Craig, it's in my best interest or our best interest to actually go through much beyond what I already said. I mean, at the end of the day, we along with our peers believe that the relationship has become lopsided and needs to be corrected. And we're working, I think, with our network partners to ensure [indiscernible] in a way that's in the best interest of both parties.

Okay.

Thanks for that. And my second question, Jason, on the cost outlook here for Scripps Networks down mid teens in the first quarter. Quite a sea change for the positive from your vantage point getting rid of this the news operation there. Can you just help us understand can you us some financials around the cost outlook for this year? How much in dollars are your savings this year versus $24,000,000 come from getting rid of the news part of the operation versus just the core cost cutting that you're doing? In total? How should we think about that for the year to get to your margin guidance for the year? How is it Yes. So the shutdown of the ScrippsNews over the air operation, it does ScrippsNews does continue as a streaming brand. Is driving a $35,000,000 savings on an annual basis starting on oneone. So that is a big piece of 400 to 600 basis points guide we gave in terms of margin improvement for networks, but there are other components there as well. Some decisions we've made that you'll see kind of rolling through the programming line tied to carriage free agreements as well as continued focus on driving efficiency in headcount as well.

So all of those things combined come together through to get us to that that guide. And as you heard me say on the call, we gave out that guide back in November. I think there were some questions about how do you actually achieve it as we we said on the call, we're actually at this point The to hit the high end of that guide in Q1 based on where we're at right now.

So Jason, is the non news cost savings for this year another roughly $35,000,000 of savings? I think you've said that in the past. How should we think about that?

I don't think we've quantified anything besides the 400 basis points to 600 basis points Okay.

And $35,000,000 for Scripps News. Okay. And then also can you just I'd like to hear a little bit can you quantify actually how auto advertising is doing in the first quarter?

On a year over year basis? [indiscernible] Yes. Auto is certainly one of The more challenged categories right now because of all of the disruption coming out tied to tied to potential impacts for tariffs, so on and so forth. And so so right now, it's kind of trending down. I would say it's the it's down the most of any of our categories right now. As I said earlier, services and home improvement are feeling very little bit better. And so it's kind of down in kind of that low teens range.

Okay. And then also you mentioned retail category was was down fairly significant. Is that approaching that number as well then?

No, it's doing better than auto. Auto is the most impacted category right now. I'll also remind everybody that from a percentage perspective, auto is our second biggest category services continues to be our large category has been for the better part [indiscernible] as long as I can remember. Services represents about a third of our Okay. And The I think I have two more here if I could. The Scripps network, so The there any advertising categories there that you'd want to call out The are are doing materially better? Than trends last six months? And maybe are there any that are doing materially worse? Any significant changes there? I think what we've seen is that from a general market perspective, consumer packaged goods and the restaurant category have been down more than some of the other categories. Pharmaceuticals and retail have have hung in there a little bit better.

Than those two. And from a Doctor perspective, I'd say consumer packaged goods and healthcare are the weaker categories in the Doctor space.

The other question I wanted to ask you on live sports. As we sort of think about all the various hours you guys have had here in live sports here, are you pretty confident The almost across the board that the EBITDA you're getting off those those few hours of each sports that you're showing on there is materially more profitable than what it replaced? And how do you think about that right now? Yes. Without question, I mean, it's clear that live sports is a sweet spot for linear TV. And our move into women's sports was particularly well timed. We were ahead of the demand and that benefited us propelling us past to other general market or general entertainment networks. Versus with respect to peer performance and advertising. I think we would definitely pursue other opportunities but only so long as it makes financial sense, Craig. It can certainly be easy to get carried away with live sports rights and overpay, but I've said consistently and I think you all know that deals that we do have to be done with discipline to create value from the beginning. And that's what we've done this far and that's the only way we'll do it going forward.

Thanks, Greg. And I'm not showing any further questions at this time. So this does conclude today's presentation. You may all disconnect and have a wonderful day.