Thryv Holdings, Inc. Price & Performance (THRY)

During this call, we will make forward looking statements that are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from these statements. A discussion of these risks and uncertainties are included in our earnings release and SEC filings. Today's presentation will also include non GAAP financial measures. Which should be considered in addition to, but not as a substitute for, our GAAP results. Reconciliation of these measures can be found in our earnings release. This quarter marks our first time reporting SaaS result inclusive of Keep Software. Following our acquisition on October 31, 2024, With only two months of Keep's revenue reflected, we are focused on executing our integration plan and realizing the synergies we outlined. At Analyst Day. To note, for 2025, total SaaS revenue will reflect the combined performance of Thrive and Keep, we will only specify Thrive SaaS when isolating Thrive's performance. This reporting approach aligns with our long term vision of a unified SaaS platform and ensures investors have full visibility into our growth trajectory. For deeper insight into our future strategy, we encourage investors to review our December 3 Analyst Day materials. The presentation details our roadmap including the planned exit for marketing services in 2028.

Keeps role in accelerating SaaS adoption expected synergies with the acquisition, product innovation, in our updated medium term [indiscernible] With that, I'll turn the call over to Joe Walsh, Chairman and CEO. [indiscernible] Thank you, Cameron, and good morning, everyone. On today's call, I will highlight our fourth quarter results, key trends as well as progress in our SaaS transformation. I'll provide an update on our recent key acquisition, And then our CFO, Paul Rouse, will take you through some of the financial numbers. Brock finished the year with strong momentum beating the top and bottom line guidance for our SaaS business. For the quarter, total SaaS reported year over year revenue growth was 41% and normalizing for the effects of the Keyp acquisition, DriveSaaS revenue growth was 23%, For the full year 2024, DRIVE SaaS year over year revenue growth was 25 Total SaaS revenue is now officially well over on milestone for our transformative business. Subscribers in our Thrive SaaS business grew 50% year over year to 99,000 including keep in the subscriber base takes us to 114,000. SaaS adjusted gross margin increased to 76% for the fourth quarter. Our quarterly SaaS EBITDA of 17,000,000 beat guidance by over $5,000,000 continuing to demonstrate our focus on building a profitable growing SaaS software company.

SaaS obtained Rule 40 milestones for the second quarter in a row. Net revenue retention was 98% As we've said, our target is 100% and we'll be a couple of points plus or minus that. Sometimes it'll be 101 or 102 and sometimes it will be 98 or 99, but we'll be right around 100% is what we expect going forward. The number of clients using two or more paid SaaS products increased by over 4,000 year over year, now representing 16% of our client base. This is a key metric as it demonstrates growing engagement and the increasing value clients are deriving from our platform. Now we've broadened the definition beyond just paid centers. Which is 12%, to include all paid SaaS products This is underscoring the expanding adoption of our full suite of solutions Many good shows we've been innovating and coming up with some interesting additional SaaS add ons that still in and around. So the overall base increased tremendously. So the percentage of centers looks like 12, but when we look at number of SaaS products overall, 16% or 4,000 gains. So pretty excited about what that shows in terms of the progress that we're making.

One of our core strengths as a management team is integrating acquisitions with speed and efficiency.

This Keep acquisition is our first SaaS platform something we've been working on for a while and planning for a while. So come to a surprise that we've already crystallized $10,000,000 of EBITDA synergies. We've done this primarily by eliminating redundancies between the two businesses vendor consolidations and some plan for cost reductions. From a cross sell perspective, the big long term opportunity is the revenue cross sell back and forth. And we're working hard getting that set up now. And we expect very strong revenue potential to be unlocked over the next couple of years. As we cross sell between the two customer bases. We had some pretty exciting product updates in Q4. That I think strategically position us really well we go into 2025. I'd like to highlight a couple of those for you now. Reporting Center launched with a PLG motion. This positions us to unlock revenue expansion opportunities and it increases the client satisfaction particularly of our larger accounts. Of our larger accounts will say to us, we want more powerful reporting. And so we are including reporting center on a kind of a PLG or a product led growth basis, we'll extract revenue down the road.

But in the meantime, we've got an initiative to try to sell to a little bit bigger businesses to move ever so [indiscernible] and reporting center will really assist with that. We also added AI review response to Business Center and Marketing Center. This feature has been really well received by clients and sales paving the way for future innovations leveraging AI. The addition of social media to marketing center, added enhanced communication tools for our clients. That's been really well received also. Within the key products, we've had some improvements there as well. Updated the automation builder, which decreased the time to publish an automation by two thirds, meaning it takes about a third of the time now to get one set up. And so that was an opportunity there and the key team has leveraged that Also the visual sales pipeline have been streamlined for clients. And so there's a real product improvement there that I think customers within KEEP will really appreciate. So with that, I'd like to turn it over to Paul Ralph, our CFO. To discuss our financial performance. Thanks, Jeff. Let's begin with SaaS. Total SaaS reported revenue was $104,300,000 in the fourth quarter and above guidance, representing an increase of 41% year over year and up 20% sequentially.

Full year SaaS reported revenue 30% year over year $343,500,000 Excluding Keith, Drive SaaS business grew 23% year over year in the fourth quarter and 25% year over year for the full year. Breaking the span, our Thryv SaaS revenue was $90,900,000 in the quarter, landing within our guidance range and growing 23% year over year. The key acquisition contributed $13,400,000 in revenue in November and December 2024, surpassing our guidance range of $11,000,000 dollars For the full year, our total SaaS revenue grew 30% three forty three point five million [indiscernible] our Thrive SaaS business achieved 25% year over year growth. Our total SaaS adjusted gross margin has shown significant growth increasing by six twenty basis points year over year and three seventy basis points sequentially, reaching 76%. Full year total FAS adjusted gross margin expanded to 72% up from 67% last year. A five forty basis point improvement. Importantly, our total FAS adjusted gross profits grew 53% year over year, outpacing our strong revenue growth. In the fourth quarter, total SaaS adjusted EBITDA increased to $17,300,000 significantly exceeding our guidance range and resulting in an adjusted EBITDA margin of 16.6%. As Joe mentioned earlier, this marks the second consecutive quarter which our SaaS business As a Chief, rule of 40.

In the fourth quarter, we delivered strong SaaS subscriber growth, reaching 114,000 subscribers, excluding key subscribers of 15,000. This represents a 73% year over year increase. Total SaaS marketing for the fourth quarter was $324 including Drive, SaaS, ARPU was $313 an increase from the previous quarter while Keep's ARPU was $424 for November and December. Net revenue retention was 98% demonstrates strong performance and is a significant improvement compared to prior years.

Underscoring the effectiveness of our land and expand strategy. This result is very close to our long term goals of maintaining retention near 100%. Which remains a key priority for the business. Additionally, centers per client grew 212% at the end of the quarter compared to 6% in the prior year. Further highlighting the traction we're seeing with existing clients. Moving over to marketing services, fourth quarter revenue was $82,300,000 and within guidance. Full year marketing services revenue was $480,700,000 Fourth quarter marketing services adjusted EBITDA was 12,100,000.0 resulting in an adjusted EBITDA margin of 15%. Full year marketing services adjusted EBITDA was $121,200,000 resulting in adjusted EBITDA margin of 25%. The variance in reporting marketing services adjusted EBITDA to guidance in the quarter was primarily due to legacy and operational costs which the company plans to streamline in 2025. [indiscernible] system related expenses and support staff. As indicated at our twenty twenty four Analyst Day, we are committed to decommissioning legacy systems through 2025. And converting many legacy digital marketing services customers onto our SaaS platform. Despite this, our overall EBITDA for the quarter was at the high end of our range of guidance. Fourth quarter marketing services [indiscernible] Were $92,000,000 reflecting a 40% year over year decline.

This trend more closely aligns with our strategic direction for marketing services. As we continue to convert many of our legacy marketing services clients, to our SaaS offering. The pace of this transition impacts the rate of decline in marketing services billings. As previously disclosed, we are exiting the marketing services business by 2028. With cash flows from the business extending into 02/1930. This will provide the company with ample liquidity to meet its obligations the transition to a fully fast focused model. Fourth quarter consolidated adjusted gross margin was 69% and full year consolidated adjusted gross margin was 68%. Fourth quarter consolidated adjusted EBITDA was 29,400,000.0 representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 16%. Full year consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $162,400,000 representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 20%. Finally, our net debt position was $279,000,000 at the end of the fourth quarter, a decrease of $61,000,000 year over year. Our leverage ratio was 1.63 times. Net debt to EBITDA. As previously discussed, we made an additional prepayment of $26,000,000 on the new term loan during the fourth quarter bringing our total amortization paid for 2024 under the new credit facility to $78,800,000 This eliminates the need for an additional payment [indiscernible] December 2025.

This proactive debt repayment underscores our commitment to financial discipline and maintaining our healthy balance sheet. We intend to continue prepaying debt this year. Reinforcing our focus on strengthening our financial position. Finally, on leverage. We remain committed to further deleveraging of the business by the end of 2025.

However, as we have outlined at our December Analyst Day, net leverage will temporarily increase in the first two quarters of twenty twenty five due to the prepayment of key vendor contracts decommissioning of legacy systems corporate bonus payments, and the timing of directory publications which follow a twenty four month cycle as we position the marketing services for exit in late twenty twenty eight.

Since leverage is calculated, on a trailing twelve month basis, it will be impacted by this publishing schedule. As a result, we expect significant deleveraging in the third and fourth quarters of twenty twenty five and on a full year basis. Turning to our outlook for 2025. For the first quarter, we expect total SaaS revenue to be in a range of $107,500,000 to $110,000,000 For the full year, we expect total SaaS revenue in the range of $464,500,000 to $474,000,000 which implies drive SaaS revenue growth of 35% to 38%. We expect Keep to contribute between $75,000,000 to 78,000,000 for the full year consistent with what we announced [indiscernible] For the first quarter, we expect SaaS adjusted EBITDA in the range of $9,000,000 to $9,500,000 For the full year, expect SaaS adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of $69,500,000 to $71,000,000 which implies that's adjusted EBITDA margin of 15%. For the full year, we expect marketing services revenue to be in the range of $310,000,000 to $314,000,000 Quarterly guidance ranges for marketing services are available in our investor presentation which can be found on our investor site. For the full year, we expect marketing services adjusted EBITDA to be in the range of $77,500,000 to $78,500,000 With that, I'll turn it back over to Joe.

Thank you, Paul. As we look ahead to 2025, I'm happy to share that including Keep, our SaaS business will be 60% of total revenues. That's a big milestone for us. At our Analyst Day recently, we outlined One of them is that in 2026, the majority of our EBITDA will come from SaaS. So that really kind of helps focus us on the fact that we're building a profitable SaaS business. And then in 2027, we anticipate a return to overall top line revenue growth. We continue to build out our platform and gain more and more traction, deliver more and more value for clients. We are proud of the fact that we were recently given an important award as best software by G2 This is a third party kind of validation of the progress that we're making in it. Echoes what we hear from our customers all the time. And that's that our software is easy to use, it's helping them run their business more efficiently, helping them streamline operations and importantly helping them grow. And so we intend to continue to innovate and improve and expect the win more awards in the future, but that was really good external validation.

So as we look now and sort of finish up 2024 and look back on what happened, We're maturing as a software business. Our platform is getting built not quite done yet, but it's getting built out getting stronger and our ability to sell to a little bit larger businesses is coming. That's been one of our goals. A little larger ACV We think there's a little lower churn there. We've already got churn, but we think we can do even better as we sell to a little bit larger businesses. We think that that's worth the investment. And as our platform is being more fully built out, we're really focusing on leaning into the growth side of business, helping small businesses grow, being an industry leading marketing and sales platform helping them to deepen their relationship with their customers. And so our dedicated team, I think, is delivering innovative technology and I'm confident that we can continue to drive sustainable profitable growth and maximize shareholder value. So we appreciate your ongoing support and we look forward to the many opportunities that lie ahead in 2025.

With that operator, we can open the line for questions.

And your first question comes from the line of Jason Kreger with Craig Hallum Please go ahead.

Wonderful. Thank you guys. So look, I know it's early days on Keep side of things, but just wondering if you could give some early commentary on what the cross sell process looks like and getting those customers into some of the Thrive centers?

Sure. [indiscernible] The acquisitions, as you know, was was just Halloween. So we've just had a couple of months to work on it. So everything is not fully complete. But we do have some cross sells beginning The process is underway. And it really goes two ways. It's some of the key customers that are coming in through their funnel through their pipeline that come in and learn about the automation say to the representatives that are working with them, I really want some growth. Really want to generate leads. I really want to build my list. And that really is a natural conversation to talk to them about March center, our Thryv products and so that works well. On the On the Thrive side, we have I'd say one of our biggest problems is we generate huge numbers of leads for our small business customers And some of them just sort of fall on the floor. They don't really get followed up on as well as they showed or would like them to.

And so putting in place a sales pipeline of funnel, a an automated process that continues to follow-up with those customers. Make sure none of them are lost or missed. I think we'll add tremendous value to our 100,000 Thrive customers on that side of the house So our sales organization is excited about that. And the sort of the plumbing and the wiring for all that is being put together and groups are being trained and that will kick off and begin to happen as the year plays out. So we've had a couple of early sales already just sort of with demand was strong and we figured out how to do it. But the broad process will be picking up very soon. And we expect about $5,000,000 of cross sell back and forth between the customer bases this year That would be a little bit back weighted just it takes a minute to get it all set up and going. But there's definitely interest, there's definitely demand, Our business advisors are really excited to get their hands on it. To take the keep automation into the big drive customer base. Kate, Thanks, Joe. Maybe similar topic. As you're targeting these larger businesses, just curious if there's anything different with that process?

If there's any changes in the selling cycles? And then Do you have any tangible evidence yet of the ability to cross sell into that group or is that maybe is it too early to tell there? Well, look, I want to be clear.

About this. We're not talking about going to really big companies. Like 200, 500 employee companies. We're talking about going up from a three employee business to an eight employee business. So it's not that different. I would say the biggest difference that we hear when we get into a little bit larger, we have a lot of service bases business in our customer base. So the difference here is between a guy with one truck on the road and a guy with five trucks on the road. That's the difference here. And what we find when we get into the Got it.

Ten, fifteen employee businesses that we really target and really cover is they're looking for more powerful reporting. Our Thrive software is on the continuum between complicated and really powerful and simple and easy to use, we are closer to simple and easy to use. And so one of the things up until now, and it's lacked, is really powerful reporting.

And I can say the same for Keith. Keith tools work really well, but they don't have as powerful reporting as a lot of their customers would like. So the reporting center which we rolled out recently is a big answer to that and we'll meaningfully improve client satisfaction for the larger, more complex businesses that are in our current customer base and as we talk to customers in the future, that have 15 or 18 employees, they're a little bit bigger, they have a manager, they have some manager people that that don't that aren't just out there putting the roofs on or whatever. They'll be able to look at reports and use reports to run their company, to run the software in a way that we think will make us much more attractive to those little bit bigger businesses. That was I guess, a shortcoming up until now when we got into bigger businesses. They were giving us the feedback. Look, we're really looking for more reporting than this. So that's part of the reason that we prioritize building reporting center and something that the key product development team are jumping up and down excited about getting reporting center for their offerings as well.

Your next question comes from the line of Scott Berg with Needham. Please go ahead.

Hi, everyone. Nice quarter here. I guess a couple of questions For me, Joe, let's start, let's talk, I guess, sales in the fourth quarter. You guys obviously had a lot going on with the acquisition and whatnot, but your customer adds or I guess your net customer adds on the core SaaS business declined a little bit from what you saw in Q2 and Q3.

And I know there's a little seasonality in the business there, but you see anything different there around, I don't know, buying appetites from your customers versus what was really a strong middle part of the year? Look, Scott, the holidays are always a little tough for us. Our small businesses are they almost are on the continuum between enterprise and consumer. They're almost closer to consumer. So they literally go on vacation or have had things going on in their lives hard to even pin down. So Thanksgiving through kind of early January, it's just always a little harder for us to be as productive as we'd like with our sales force.

To be honest with you.

So that's kind of that always happens. [indiscernible] in terms of you trying to ask me kind of about the macro and get a read there, which [indiscernible] I think immediately following the election, I think that there was a sense of a positive sense among small businesses that we were going to have a more business friendly administration and that climate would be better going forward. And I think that that's still there, but there's a layer now of concern about tariffs and about potentially inflation and things that feel a little softer to people out there. And I just think there's some concern just because there's so much going on. It's not negativity really, just just a little bit more of a caution. Than just a pure positive feeling that was there in the immediate two months after after the election. So I would say overall, and I've said this to you before, I don't really feel like our results ride on small business sentiment or consumer sentiment. At all. It's really down to our own execution. But you guys often ask me about what's the the macro, what's the climate, And I would say it's met. It's not bad.

But there is just a little bit of extra concern now out there in the environment. And it does not really impact on our results. Understood. Certainly understand the seasonality in your fourth quarter. It's apparent in some of your historical metrics as well. From a follow-up, Paul, the Keep acquisition outperformed your expectations and in Q4 by, I'll call it, dollars 2,000,000 round number. Roughly, yet you maintain the fiscal twenty twenty five contribution from that business. I guess what drove the upside in the two months that you had it And then is there any follow through on that? And how we should think about maybe upside opportunity for that key segment here in fiscal twenty twenty five?

Yes, we were a bit conservative in estimate. We just got the business and we wanted to make sure we delivered. So it was conservatism that led to that overperformance. I think what we're going to stay with our because integrating businesses are hard. And for caution, we're going to stick with our estimates that we gave in the Analyst Day between $75,000,000 to $78,000,000 for the year from the key business. We think that's the right number to go with right now.

Excellent. Thanks for taking my questions. Thanks, Scott.

Your next question comes from the line of Arjun Battia with William Blair. Please Go ahead. Hey, thanks for taking the question. This is Alinda Lee here for Arjun.

Question is what are the feedback from customers who have experienced a cross sell between Thrive and Keep? And what are you learning from those customer conversations so far?

So it's very early days. We are only really just getting that process started. I mentioned earlier, some of the [indiscernible] leads, if you will, people coming in to keep. Are trying to figure how to grow their business. [indiscernible] Keeps offering is really kind of the second step in growth. You need to have a list. You need to have customers that you can then nurture and put through Keep's automation processes Keith doesn't isn't really advertising or really won't kind of go generate that list or generate leads And so Thrive's marketing center is designed to do that and is really helpful in doing that. So that's been really cool for them. They've been able to capture some leads, which otherwise would have just been been gone away before. So that we've had great feedback there And I think as they get some success with winning new business and building up their list, they will naturally be able to add the automation to nurture and manage their sales pipeline. So it's kind of a hand in glove perfect scenario. On the Thrive side of the house, we're already bringing them leads. We're already building their list and all that.

And so we will soon begin to sell sell the automations to those customers. And another thing it's permitting us to do is customize and build some vertical [indiscernible] So that we can have a very successful HVAC guy or a very successful roofer help us build automations for their industry. That we can then go to thousands of other HVAC or roofing guys and really say, look, this is being used by one of the leaders in your industry and it's got all the automation designed just the way you would want them for your business. You can of course customize them This is turnkey and ready to go. And so that's a big piece of what we're doing going forward because while we are a horizontal software, we've had a tremendous amount of success in a lot of verticals. Further customizing for those verticals is something that we really were excited about doing and Keith permits that and let us do that in a really So that's something that I can tell you our sales organization is really excited about getting those customized automation to take to their clients and feel like there will be a very strong appetite for them.

Awesome. And kind of moving broadly, any changes to the go to market to achieve the goal of returning overall business growth? By 2027?

Yes.

I mean, the acquisitions of Keith added a really significant partner channel. We have 1,000 partners in that partner channel. And we had a small partner effort within Thryv but we were honestly not that great at it. [indiscernible] buying a proven two decade old really well oiled, well running partner channel. Is a meaningful adder for us to enhance our sales channel on to the more sophisticated kind of businesses that acquire their software through partners, The other piece it does is it really amplifies our international efforts. Into markets that we don't currently have a footprint. And so yes, I do think that that's a big amplifier of our sales efforts and will contribute mightily by 2027 to the overall top line growth that we anticipate getting back to. Awesome. Thanks, Gal.

Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Daniel Moore with CJS Securities.

Good morning. I appreciate the color and thanks for taking the questions again. I guess two quick ones. One, you reiterated it in the slide deck, and great to see the lines so to speak, cross on revenue and SaaS making up the majority of revenue now. Just update us on your confidence that maybe any greater specificity in terms of when you expect the lines to cross on EBITDA Just wondering whether you still feel like fiscal twenty twenty five will mark roughly the bottom for EBITDA and when we start to when we strip Thryv about overall growth there?

Sure.

That's in our investor deck, there's that I think great slide that shows the sort of inflection point We're anticipating that the majority of our EBITDA source of EBITDA in 2026 will be coming from the SaaS business. So it will actually be take the baton and it's not like marketing services still won't be making a whole lot of money, it will. But but SaaS will actually eclipse it And then the following year in 2027, we believe that the now that much bigger SaaS business we'll be able to deliver overall top line growth in the business even as marketing services continues to decline rapidly. So that's sort of how we see it playing out As far as trying to park it all the way down to like what quarter that happens or whatever, I think that would be a little too clever. For us to try to do right now. We do have models that we're looking at them and we think about it, but I'm not sure that would be appropriate for me to to go there and take it down tighter than that.

Understood. And then maybe just speak to the cadence of the launch of additional centers over the next, say, one to two years. Or is the focus more on integrating and capturing revenue synergies from key Yes. We have already sort of preannounced at our Analyst Day what the next center is, it's workforce center. We've had a demand there for time tracking and paying of employees and contractors and that's something that we've been building for a couple of years and actually have it in sort of alpha level now. And so we're confident that that will come out this year. Probably won't add any revenue this year, probably Thryv revenue adds come the year after. As far as additional centers going into '26 and '27, we stopped short of promising any further center. Now, it doesn't mean we won't add any. But what we are going to be really focused on is making it all really work well together, making sure the platform of tools that we have is interoperable with other things in the market. And in the case of keys coming in, then it's still keeps moving working between everything, the UIs are integrated, not looking for Frankenstein here.

We want a really easy to use platform, One of the things that you're dealing with very small businesses have to make it kind of consumer grade. It's got to be really simple and clear. You can't challenge people with hard to use tools. So that's that's going to be really important for us and we have not promised more centers each year after that.

Some of our innovations make up in the form of add ons or other other product offerings that maybe don't rise to the level being a whole separate center. We had an initial vision for the platform we were trying to build which workforce center puts the big lanes on. And now we've got a lot of fill ins to do. So I would not guide you that you'll see another massive center coming out each of the next few years. Just us continuing to innovate and make everything work. Better together.

Understood. Appreciate it. Thanks Dan.

Your last question comes from the line of Zach Cummins with B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Joe, I wanted to ask about the ARPU and just the core ThriveSaaS business. It was nice to see that sequential uptick from Q3 to Q4.

Are we approaching the trough in terms of where you think ARPU will be for that business? I know it can fluctuate just given adding new marketing legacy. Marketing services customers versus layering in additional products. So just curious of how you're thinking about that progression of the ARPU for the core business?

You're right. The number can be noisy and bounce around a little bit based on the conversion activity working with with some marketing services folks. So that has been a bit noisy. But I do feel like if I look at the whole of 25, that one of the stories when we look back at the end of it will have been very strong progress on ARPU growth. I think we spent the last couple of years really building a very big client base, 114,000 whatever clients we And I think what we want to do now and what we're asking our sales organization and our marketing team to do is really spend time with that installed base and make sure that they are engaged with the product, bedded down, using it and that we're meeting more and more of their needs. They don't have to go elsewhere. We wanted to do it with us. And so not to be craft, but upselling them, basically working with them to get more products in place. I think that one of the slides in the deck talked about the significant progress that we've made so far on adding additional SaaS products to existing customers I think this year 2025 will be a year where that's the beacon, that's like the big focus within marketing and sales of the company.

And so I do expect that will be ARPU growth will be probably the big the big thing for 2025.

Got it. Got it. And I think you're heritage I'm already partially addressing my one follow-up question, but can you speak to just some of the other paid SaaS products that you've crafted and are selling within the base now aside from just paying for additional centers and driving that percentage upward? [indiscernible] We are trying to kind of fill out the offering with an eye toward helping a small business grow. Our background, our legacy since 1886 is linking buyers and sellers together and we still own and control some of the most the biggest and most powerful directory sites around the world And we have a very large network of directory partners for which we work and we sort of monetize their traffic. And so we're trying to bring all of that to bear to make the phone ring, bring inbound inquiries to our customers. And what we find is that Customers will stop and really have a conversation with you if you can help them grow. If you can make their phone ring, if you can bring jobs in, if you can help them get new customers, And so we've been building products to help them do that.

And reaching back to some of our our legacy capabilities, if you will, to do that. One of the things that we added last year was a product we call growth packages. And these growth packages When they go with marketing center, so they're an add on marketing center. Just lights you up and help you bring in that inquiry. Then and it's really working very, very well. Both from a from a results for our customer standpoint but also from a sales standpoint. I mean, our sales force gets it and has been really great at selling that. And so that's part of why we've drawn the definition instead of just additional centers. We made additional [indiscernible] they are in a full new center. They're more of a an add on to marketing center, but they have made a big difference.

And I think are helping us really stake out ownership of that growth category. There's a lot of software out there to help you with CRM type stuff and back office type stuff, tracking your trucks when they drive around and all this kind of stuff and there's a lot of that out there. But something that a small business can embrace that will actually help them grow and then help them really track how that globe is working, you know, the It's the same as John Wanamaker quote from last century where he said, I know half of all my advertising is wasted, I just don't know which half. Marketing Center addresses that. It allows you to instrument and know app everything that you're doing and how it's working. That yard sign that you put in front of a house that you're putting siding on, is that actually working? Well, marketing center will tell you exactly how many calls are generated. And then link that to your results whether you sold them or not. [indiscernible] the phone numbers on the side of your truck, you can figure out if that's working. Everything that you're doing, you can track. Are people bouncing out of your website?

You can heat map your website and figure out what's working and what isn't. Really every piece of your marketing. And so to have that kind of absolute transparency with marketing center and then have tools that actually drive leads into it. We think is a really valuable place to sit within the market. And customers are really responding also it. And then the coup de grace is you come along behind it. And you add the key product where you put a sales pipeline and automation to that funnel to make sure that none of those leads are spilled on the ground. And you really are starting to to cook with gas here. You got a really great growth oriented package. And then for the businesses that they succeed and they grow and they get a little bit bigger, we obviously have a CRM estimates, invoices, billing payments, we can help you manage social media, We now have got powerful reports you can track how it's all working and have a daily report you can run your business off almost like a a small business version of Domo, like something really simple that helps you run your business. Soon you'll be able to also pay your employees and keep track of contractors and hours and so on.

So we're really building almost like a complete platform to run a small business on And it's really and this is really important. This is where the market is now. If we look back five years, most small businesses were not in the cloud. And if they were, they were just using a little narrow point solution. They were maybe bringing in a loyalty tool or some little thing to help with social media or maybe a payment tool. The question that's on their list now is rather than the piecemeal point solution thing, is there a more complete platform that I can sign up for that I can have one launch I can show my employees how to use it.

I could set permissions within this one thing, and I could have this more almost enterprise wide for my 12 employee You know, tool that I have access to on my mobile device. When I'm at the kids' soccer game or I'm away for the weekend, I can track everything. I know what's going on. I get rid of some of the paper in my life. And I'm actually able to run my business And the whole thing is less than $1,000 a month to run my business on.

And that's the spot we've been aiming at. And I'll admit, we might have been early We were out there trying to sell a complete platform to people that were only ready for point solutions in the early stage in this. But now the small businesses are moving toward this wanting this more complete solution and I think we have the right product for the right time. I think that second half of this decade will be a whoosh big wave of demand for what we offer and I think that we're really well positioned and we're working with great urgency to finish our platform, finish building it out and work out all the little kinks and burs and problems. So it's super, super easy to use and very interoperable with everybody else's tools, but but we think we will capture an enormous amount of demand at the time.

And we're super excited about it. It.

Got it. Appreciate all the color and congrats on the [indiscernible] Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.