Telix Pharmaceuticals Limited Price & Performance (TLX)

This is the Talanx earnings call for the full year and fourth quarter of the financial year 2024. I'm together here with my CEO, Thorsten Lohe and my CFO, Jan Wickel, who will take you through the details of our numbers. After their presentation, Jan and Thorsten will be happy to answer your questions. We are on Teams today, so we can see each other. And if you want to ask a question, please use the hand raise feature and I somehow organize that your questions will be addressed. As usual, all the documents will be available on our web including but not limited to our financial data supplement, which has lots of details on all the numbers. And with that, I hand over to Thorsten. Thorsten, the floor is yours.

Thank you very much, Bernd, and a warm welcome, as from my side. So I guide you through to the highlights of last year results. Well, we had an excellent year. This was actually the best year in our history. We have 11% top line, 25% bottom line, 80% on equity. Important is that the bottom line is much faster growing than the top line, I believe, that numbers, if you look to the industry, this is fast growth. We can really probably seen us as top of the league. This is basically based on a business model we would like to continue at start, and we started to show to you in Munich at our Capital Market Day we have a strong diversification now, and you will see the numbers in a minute. It's roughly fifty-fifty prime insurance and reinsurance. So it's that's the whole idea about the diversification. We have a P and C focus, which is especially outside of Germany, very strong. With over 90%, and we have a cost leadership, that's what we mentioned as well, 93% of our portfolio, except retail Germany, we are the cost leader in markets we are in and that allows us profitable growth and gaining market share.

And we have a resiliency, and this is a number which probably is important as well to you [indiscernible] even more details when we get the towers Watson results as we always publish a year. But he will show you, Janitz, as a kind of teaser we probably have resiliency above €4,000,000,000 now. And Jan will give you more details on that position. That performance culture we see and basically all the segments. I will not mention much Reinsurance because you have all the information already. So let's talk about the prime insurance. Our strongest and basically, since the origin of our company, we founded by the corporate and specialty former called Industry Lines. This is a global play. We have now EUR 10,000,000,000. I remember some years ago, we had only EUR 5,000,000,000, not even, And now we talk about 500,000,000 or $5.00 1,000,000 as a former Jeans model, also $5.00 1 model, if somebody of you remember. So it's a €500,000,000 bottom line. So this significantly, we really have a global play now. We are amongst the top player in industrial or in the corporate and specialty. Segment. Then followed by the second largest segment was our international retail portfolio.

It's a clear growth play. It's very good for diversification effect. It's nearly EUR 10,000,000,000 it's nearly EUR 500,000,000 already. And as you know, in those markets we want to be in, we play the top five. And in Latin America, we are now top two. Last year, they grow as well as the Corporate and Specialty double digit, but they grow even 30% over 30% last year. And Germany is a stable place, a smaller segment, 7% of the total with 163%. We are quite happy because the combined is below 97%. So it's stable a very challenging market. So this is mainly summarizing. We are now €48,000,000,000 as a turnover. And important for me is that while we had this liberty effect where we're now number two in Latin America, but this doesn't happen every year. So therefore, important is that organic growth according to our business model is still the most significant part, 7%, is organic growth. And here, again, comparing it, I think it's a good growth in the industry. And the 25% bottom line as well is close to €2,000,000,000 with a 17% return on equity roughly. I think it's pretty much okay. That was driven, and you can see it here on the right side, the reinsurance part, a significant growth of 28% compared to last year, which is very good, but you see as well that the 41% was increased in Primary Insurance net income.

And those figures and it's always important what you don't see you don't see the buildup of resiliency. We again, we will show it to you in fifteenth May when the results will be published, but I can indicate you not just the 4,000,000,000 I can indicate as well that especially this was increased by the Primary Insurance. So it's not just an increase of 41%, but as well the high quality of the results, which I would just outline at that point here. And that leads to the point that we have always said we want to have a good diversification. This was explained in a fifty-fifty, and 50 means reinsurance 50%, and 50% prime insurance to our results. And we are now with 49% basically there. Actually, when you would see the fourth quarter result, we're above 50% in the prime insurance already, but this is not important. For us, it's important to have a fifty-fifty roughly around fifty-fifty to have a clear and high benefit of diversification. And if you see now the private insurance, this is a split we have there, what the contribution is So Corporate and Specialty, our core, and we have to prove to ourselves in the past that our core is corporate and specialty and that we can do the business relatively good.

And with 22% contribution with this high quality of the reserves here we have built up, we are there. Probably you could say we are back really in this market. And international follow-up very nicely as number two in our prime insurance and retail as you can see, with 7% number three. And this is reflecting at the end this development of the primary insurance probably in our you say, the sum of the part calculation and some arguments we used in the past already, you can see now the prime insurance, if you take this kind of calculation, it's roughly 6,000,000,000 or even now in the last days, up to SEK7.9 billion. Which is still a price earning a PE ratio of around six So as you can see on the right side, 12%, and we like more than 12% that is clear. So there's a potential probably for us. Now comes to what we basically have said in the capital market. In Munich in December, well, we want to give you this message one year earlier and higher that what we have done We have thought that we will make 25%, so 1.6% actually one year earlier in 'twenty four, we make roughly DKK 2,000,000,000 already.

So this message promise is a promise. Even if we make it earlier, that was important to tell you. When it comes to the outlook, I mean, you have heard that what we were given, the mid single digits growth, we still believe our business model can produce through the cycles growth. We already published above €2,100,000,000 and the 17% return on equity would mean that number. Maybe the message is we are confident. To achieve that. We are confident in spite of what in the reinsurance event in California, what I know, it was a EUR 500 to 700,000,000 nat cat event has set. Are confident to achieve it because prime insurance, basically, there was not much nat cat event. We are below the budget in the primary part. Still, mean, there's still some days to run, but for the time being, just clearly below the budget. So therefore, confident to achieve that what we have said as an outlook. And as well, as we have said as well in our Capital Markets, we prolonged our strategic cycle because the business model is running, until twenty twenty seven. And we gave you, therefore, as well the numbers The numbers are 30% and the 50%.

The 30% was the net income growth, which would mean around €2,500,000,000 net income in 2027. Or a CAGR of double digit, let's say, of 10% until 2027. And regarding dividends, we increased actually higher, plus 50% in 2027, which would give us which would give you a €4 dividend. And that would mean a CAGR until 2027 of '14. And with that, I would now hand over to Jan Wiggy to give you more details. About finance and about the segments. Jan, the floor is yours.

Well, thank you, Thorsten. And before I dig into the details, let me start with a quick glance of some figures which Thorsten has already mentioned. So we are growing. We are growing 11%, currency adjusted 13%. We are growing profitable. The return on equity stands at 17.9%. And we want our shareholders to participate in the way how we monetize our growth. This is why we have increased the dividend per share by 15% to €2.7 which should be paid out during the course of this year. Where is the performance of our company coming from? It's coming from the underwriting performance. We were able to improve the underwriting performance across the board in all lines in all business units of our group. And but we want to remain humble. First of all, yes, it's about underwriting discipline, but second, also large loss play a role. And large loss remained on at prior year level, but below more than €200,000,000 below budget. So we have been a little bit lucky also with this underwriting result, which resulted in insurance service result of above €5,000,000,000 which is a record in our history, but it's not only because of it's also because of underwriting discipline, and this really matters to us.

If we look at the other part of our income, which which is the investment income, there we have rather boring numbers. We stick to our high quality investment portfolio, which is seen on the left side of the chart. We were able to make use of nice reinvestment yields on average 4.5% during the course of the year. And this helped us to increase the average bond portfolio yield to 2.9%. Torsten already mentioned it. We have a very very much invested in the resiliency of our balance sheet. And this is shown on the next chart, which you can see we did not only increase the resiliency on the reserve side, we also increased it on the investment side. So we realized losses in our bond portfolio in order to lock in higher coupons for the future. And over the last three years, we did it with more than 1,200,000,000.0 And on top of it, we strengthened the resiliency which is embedded in our best estimate and which is assessed by an external actuary to what we expect to be above €4,000,000,000 for twenty twenty four Towers Watson hasn't finalized their assessment now. But I'm very confident that there will be a number above €4,000,000,000 And as Thorsten has said, we have already heard some numbers from Hannover Re, which are very good but we expect primary group to be even slightly in relative terms, slightly a little bit better.

So given the strong resilience in our balance sheet, we can increase the dividend easily by over the last two years by 35% compared to the last year 15% to €2.7 And I just want to remind you that the initial strategic cycle till 2025, we have set out a target for the dividend 2.5 for 2025 to be paid off 2026. So we are one year early, and we deliver higher than initially expected. And also, we want to confirm, we are very confident that we can deliver an increase in earnings growth of 30% by 2027. So that would mean more than 2,500,000,000.0 net income by 2027 and a dividend increase by 50%, and thus, in clear numbers, more that a €4 dividend by 2027 to be paid out 2028. So given the very good performance of the previous year, this is also reflected in the Yat sticks for capital management. So there are two. First of all, the solvency development. As usual, we will publish our final year end numbers in May. But we already give you an indication as of today. So we expect Solvency II numbers by year end to be slightly above 220%. An increase compared to the previous year of more than five percentage points And the overall strength of our balance sheet and the very good earnings diversification was also reflected by an upgrade by the rating agency Standard and Poor's to AA.

Minus. What they in particular like was the diversification of our earnings engines within the group. Thorsten has mentioned it already. Have a fifty-fifty split when it comes to net income. But when it comes to the cash contribution to the holding company, Talanx AG, it's even twothree from the primary insurance and onethree from reinsurance. You may now ask whether this is a problem. The dividend payment Hanover Re just increased it by 25%. No, it's not. To be crystal clear here, we are very happy shareholders of Hanover Re And as long as the business unit provides us with a return on equity of 20%, we are happy to support the growth and the capital needed for it. So with regard to the new accounting yardstick, here comes my favorite chart. You're aware of it. The new accounting standard provides us with the ability not only to have a closer look to the equity development where you can see a direct value creation of €1,800,000,000 during the course of the last year, but it also reflects the embedded future expected profits in the balance sheet in the CSM and in the risk adjustment in both positions, And we have adjusted the CSM and the risk adjustment on the right side of the chart for our taxes and minority interests, which in particular important for Hannover Re.

And what you can see here in total already within our balance sheet, is a value of €19,200,000,000 And so roughly 90% of the market value of Talanx is already backed by the existing book, and there's no value in this calculation for the franchise value, and we do not intend to stop our business We want to write new business with nice margins, and we are very confident that we can do this. With regard to that, I have some more information with regard to the debt leverage. We have been in 2023 due to the Liberty acquisition slightly above our internal threshold of 35%. We are now back below 35%, as we indicated already last year. And on an HDI group level, the leverage stands at a very prudent 26.5% So Talanx is has a can provide for a very efficient capital structure for its shareholders. Let me now dig a little bit more into the segments. Where we earn our money and where the colleagues and the management team provided for the great results of 2024. Let me start with Corporate and Specialty. Corporate and Specialty had very impressive results. They were able to increase the insurance revenues to more than €10,000,000,000 which is a record in the history.

They were able to increase insurance service result to above €1,000,000,000 and this translated then in a net income of more than €500,000,000 And Torsten has already mentioned it. They have continued to be very prudent in reserving. And a large part of the increase in the resiliency, which we expect to be assessed by Thomas Watson, will be derived from Corporate Specialty. Looking at where is the growth coming from and how are we diversified, we have here put the countries in certain brackets core, grow to core and develop. As you see now, it's a U. S. In developed. That's not mentioned that we want to declare The U. S. As a developing country. We have to develop market share there. And you see different growth rates across the board. You see that the overall portfolio is well diversified, little bit overexposed towards Europe compared to the rest of the world. If we look at the growth which we could provide for the growth is driven by both new business and tariff increases. So we have rate changes of more than 6% on average through the whole portfolio. This is above claims inflation. It's not significantly above because we are writing business not only in Europe terms and also in other countries where we have higher inflation rates.

But it is above inflation. And so we are very confident that Corporate and Specialty will continue to deliver very good technical performance in the years to come. The insurance revenue by lines of business is on the right side in the pie chart is also very well balanced. So if you have very comfortable to grow this business further. What is the outlook? Let me sorry, first, what is the investment portfolio? In the investment portfolio, we had in the middle see that a strong increase in the net investment income by 88%. Which is derived from two factors: first, the growth in the asset under management So Corporate and Specialty assets are now 15,000,000,000 asset, which was an increase by 15%, but also what is reflected in the increase in the net income is that we already started with realizing losses on the bond portfolio and locking in higher yields for the future in the last year. We also did something in the current year in 2024, roughly $9,100,000,000 there in this business unit, and this helped to increase the debt investment income. The finance and investment result now stands at €83,000,000 What is the outlook? We expect to further grow the business in the high single digit number on currency adjusted number.

The combined ratio should remain below 92%. And a return on equity above 15%, I expect it to be close to the fantastic figures I provided us this year. Let me now go to Retail International. Retail International is our growth machine. They were able to increase the insurance revenues by 31 And if you adjust this for currency exchange rates, it's even 40%. And if you adjust for that we just want to figure out the organic growth number, currency adjusted, it's 15%. So in all different dimensions, nice growth, which was seen in 2024. The insurance service result due to high technical discipline was up by 83% to €778,000,000 in Insurance Services result, which translates into a combined ratio of 92.5%, which is a very, very good number. And the net net income is with $450,000,000 roughly €4,000,000 already close to the 500,000,000 And we are pretty confident that in the near future, we will be able to reach a €500,000,000 contribution also in this segment. If we look at the revenues split and the diversification within this business unit, we are Insurance revenue wise, already close to a fifty-fifty split in between Europe and South America. With regard to the net income split.

And this is also thanks to the outstanding performance of our Polish colleagues and the team around Wim Langebach. We are six 6zero 40, so more Europe based you should keep in mind that in Latin America, we had more than we have roughly €72,000,000 integration costs for the Liberty acquisitions, which were booked in 2024, which is roughly 75% of the overall integration costs. And the colleagues also in Latin America are doing a great job with regard to the integration work. I think Werm has presented that all also on the Capital Markets Day. You're aware of it. With regard to the outlook, we expect a mid- to high single digit growth in currency adjusted. And when it comes to euro, it doesn't come as a surprise for you. Obviously, we are slightly dependent on the exchange rates here. With regard to the combined ratios, it should be around 93 and return on equity above 13% which is a very good number in such a growing business unit. Let me now explain a little bit the numbers of retail Germany Retail Germany, we have a stable insurance revenue development plus 2%. Insurance service result was up 12% to more than €400,000,000 The combined ratio as Torsnes already mentioned, below 97%, 96.6 And the net income stable was 1% at 160% and providing us with a return on equity above 12% if we include the part of the contribution which is done via the asset manager, Ampega, if we exclude that, it's still above 10% return on equity.

To put it a little bit into context of the group, Retail Germany now provides for 7% of the group insurance revenues 7% of the net income. But they were able to contribute 19% in the cash contribution to Talanx AG in order to provide for the liquidity base to serve the dividend during the course of this year. So they are doing what they can given the limited growth potential in Germany, we take some more money out of this business unit. With regard to the outlook, we haven't set a growth target Profitability is key. The combined ratio should remain below 96%. The New Life business value above €170,000,000 and a return on equity excluding AMPERA above percent above 10% and including the Ampega share, it should be above 12%, so a stable result and contribution. Regard to Hannover V, you all or most of you might have listened to the call of JJ, Clements, Claude and Sven. And we are very happy shareholders here. So they expect insurance they were able to grow the insurance revenues by 8%, 11% in P and C reinsurance and 1% in Life and Health reinsurance they were able to grow their insurance service result to above 3,000,000,000 which is a record in Hannover Re history.

And the net income was up 28% to $1.22300000000.0 euros and our share is here 1.17 This is Talanx share, what you see a reflected return on equity above 20%. I do not have to add something to those numbers. With regard to the outlook, we will further grow our P and C reinsurance business by above 7% So combined ratio should remain on very low levels. In Life and Health Reinsurance, we expect the Insurance Services result to be above €875,000,000 and this should then turn out to a profit contribution for Talanx of €1,200,000,000 or for Hannover Re as a whole a profit target around €2,400,000,000 as I have mentioned in their call. So I've now explained a little bit about our business segments where the colleague in particular, in corporate and specialty did a fantastic job during the course of 2024. When it comes now to the outlook for the group as a whole, I hand over to Thorsten again.

Thank you, Jan. Outlook 25 confident. And we prolonged our strategic targets until 2027, so the cycle runs until 2027. Very confident. And with that, I hand over to Bernd for your Q and A. All right. So back again with and A. So please use the hand raise feature if you want to ask a question. And the first one comes from Michael Huttner at Berenberg. Michael, please unmute your microphone and go ahead.

Fantastic. Thank you very much. Congratulations. Three really simple questions 'd you'd probably expect. Effectively, today, you've raised your target for $20,272,500,000,000.0. And if you if I do 30% above $9.07 7 close to 2.6 I I just wondered maybe maybe you can comment on this. I mean, the you probably say, well, it's it's just higher, but but maybe was really super impressed by Retail Germany, how quick the turnaround is in combined ratio. Could you give us a little bit more color on this? I don't know, maybe you mentioned the rate rises or volume you know, volume kind of rejigging. I suspect if you strip out the rate rises, you lost a lot of volume. But but anything like that. And then in retail, in former industrial lines, corporates and specialty, sounds like there's no cycle anymore. You you just keep pushing the numbers up all the time. I I just wonder if you can give a little bit of background. Reason I asked that is that one of the calls I had recently the company was actually a little bit more cautious on industrial lines. I really can't remember which one, but there there's a a little bit of caution in the background.

That's it. Thank you.

Well, Michael, I start and then Jan will continue. Well, I mean, the last one, the covenant specialty, we don't run over water, but what we do is as I bring you the business model, is called cost leadership. And about still, I mean, we have now from 5,000,000,000 to 10,000,000,000 basic growth in the last years. We still have some position in many markets a kind of business model we can gain profitable market share. So it's not in the defending. Sometimes we are attacking models. And with that business model, it's possible, but we want to stay humble. We don't run over water. It's clear in cycles we have as well for sure. But the business model is kind of winning one at the moment. With Media Germany, I think, again, I mean, we have many actions now done and focus always pay off. They focus now on performing this now hardening market. I mean, we have seen all this inflation kicking in, and they're working on their cost position, efficiency and first results we can see already now. I'm not sure if you meant this target, this midterm target is 27%. It's above 2.5%. That's the number.

But maybe Jan, if you want to add something here.

What shall I add? Michael, you did some math and it's above €2,500,000,000 yes. And we will deliver our 30%.

Good.

Thank you.

So then we have another question from Nick Johnson. Nick Johnson from Deutsche Bank. Nick, please go ahead.

Great. Team. Thanks for taking the question.

I just wanted to ask on the 25% growth guidance. So I'm slightly surprised to see higher growth guidance in Corporate and Specialty versus International, if I've heard that right. Perhaps I think I would have assumed that international would have higher growth given the markets you're in. And maybe within corporate and specialty, there might be some drag on growth from price softening in the specialty segment. So perhaps kind if you could just give some color on the building blocks around the growth guidance in in those two segments, please? Thanks.

Yes, good point. I mean, industrial, as you can see, renewal is big at the of the year. So therefore, we basically a bit more sure than in some retail segments. But at the end, reflects again the business model. I mean, and our position the market. And therefore, we are quite still optimistic that we have this kind of growth ratio and as we have seen the renewal. It comes to the retail, Jan can comment on this as well. Yes, well, now we have the currency effect in some markets, and therefore, probably be a bit cautious here. But that's generally what we are. And Jan, maybe you comment on that. Yes.

And maybe on top of it, there will be an accounting effect due to the acquisition of Liberty. We have to book for the loss so called lost portfolio transfer of the Liberty entities, the CSM. And the CSM fuels insurance revenue in the accounting regime and will be getting smaller and smaller over the years. So there's a negative effect from the takeover of the Liberty entities embedded in that one. This will just last for one, two years, which is a little bit a drainer in that number. So if we look at the market shares in the countries, we are very optimistic that we can further grow the business.

And probably we'll explain you when it comes to the first quarter exactly how much the CSM this kind of drain of growth is just accounting gimmicks and not real picture. We will show you then.

Nick, does that answer your questions?

You're on mute, Nick. Nick?

Sorry, yes. I look forward to the update in May. But yes, that answers the questions. Thanks a lot. All right. Thank you. So then next in line is Bavin. From HSBC. Bavin, please go ahead.

Hey, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. So I have three on my side. The first one would be on your reserve resiliency. Appreciate the fact that you said that this was largely driven by primary lines. Can you provide some further breakdown in terms of which subsegments within the primary lines drove that further resiliencies? Within corporate specialty retail, international retail, Germany, So any qualitative colors on what drove that increase in resiliency? This year? The second one would on your industrial lines combined ratio targets more less than 92% for 2025. You're already at around 9% for 2023 with And you already said that the rates are running ahead of claim inflation. So should we see that more of a guidance, or or is that something that I'm missing here? Given resiliency situation looks to be more at an appropriate level in this line of business? And third and the last one would be on your corporate segment. Still see that in April, there were some higher charges related to this other investment expense, which has been the case for the last two quarters. So can you just give a guidance of how should we think about that line developing going 2025?

Is that more of a conservatism that you're building in your numbers going forward. So so any color around how should we think about that line developing going forward? Thank you.

Thank you, Baven. I mean, I'm not sure if I said everything, but we will try. Maybe the first one is resiliency per segments We show only and provide the numbers per prime insurance and reinsurance So that's what we provide to the market. And to other questions, maybe Jan, you got it.

Yes.

So we will give you a little bit more color on resiliency in May after the assessment of Towers Watson is done. But I already want to provide as of now with the information that we are very optimistic that overall there will be a resiliency figure, buffer €4,000,000,000 and that it will be a very good relative contribution of the primary group, not only of the very good contribution of Hannover So and this is mainly derived from, I can also already say that, with corporate and specialty, if you look at the sources of the increase in resiliency. With regard to the combined ratio target for Industrial Lines, 92%, given the 90% they have achieved. It's rather a conservative guidance. It is. So we are given the technical discipline which Edkar, Puls and his team have, we are very confident that they can deliver that through the cycle. And the main base of this 92% is that's the cost leadership, as Thorsten already has mentioned, yes? So it's not only about claims, it's also about costs And yes, we are a little bit passionate about that one. With regard to the corporate segment, there you have seen that we made some provisions on investments.

Yes, it's a very prudent provision, which will provide us with upside for the future. Yes. Do you have to expect that we can do this every year? No. For the modeling purposes, I would recommend you to put in €100,000,000 drain for the corporate functions as a whole. Where the financing costs of the group are already also embedded and the holding costs take €100,000,000 there will be quite a little bit volatility around this number, but €100,000,000 is a good assumption for the future.

Right. So just to clarify, for the $100,000,000 on a quarterly basis, No, no, no, no.

For the full year, for the full year, Thank you for your question. For the full year. [indiscernible] Yes. Okey doke. So then Michael has apparently other questions. Michael, go ahead.

Very quick. Poland, 80% combined ratio, think I heard from your lovely investor relations. I wonder if is that a one off? It seems really amazing number. Then always on deals, think Mexico and Specialty US is always kinda on the radar. I just wondered if there's a kind of update on that. And then the final one is on cash. So I worked out two thirds of cash remittances primary relative to EUR 1,100,000,000.0 profit. That's about a 75% cash ratio. That seems already very, very good, but is there is there upside here potentially? Thank you.

ICE makes Mexican and USA, and Tian will continue with the other two questions. No update here. And the only update if we stick and refocus what we have said, and one day will come. What I can just generally say that while Mexico, we are now in the top 10 now, we're growing nicely. In the retail international portfolio. Yes, it is clear, we don't want to buy a big company there or something that we rather go to the specialty lines, we'd rather go to niches and build up from here. So it's more, let's say, build and grow than rather to buy something big. So but we are keen we are carefully.

So Michael, and with regard to the cash, in the holding, yes, we have a higher remittance. We will continue to have a higher remittance from our subsidiaries, from our business units. And we are very confident that we will deliver on our dividend path So the dividend for 2027 will be €4 And on the way to €4 we will always want to increase the dividends from the €2.7 we are starting this. And we are able to finance out of own cash the buyout of the minorities in Poland which will cost us mid triple digit million amount. And this is already reflected in our plans. So we are very confident we will deliver as a €4 dividend per share for 2027.

Okay. So I'm not sure, Nick is your sorry? Michael, go ahead. The Poland combined ratio?

In Poland, the combined ratio was hang on a second. I can tell you the exact numbers in a second. In Poland, we had a combined ratio around 9089.3% for the full Yes. VATA was 89.4%, a really great contribution of the colleagues. And in this country.

And no one offs, one. Yes. Nothing to add. It's just a great performance.

Okay. So then Bavin, seems to have another follow-up question. Bavin? Marvin, you are mute.

But Gavin, you're still on mute.

Sorry. Since my brain do handle operation, I'll use this opportunity. So on slide number 23 wherein you show the cash contribution from subsidiaries, would you be able to say how much was the negative contribution from the corporate and consolidation segment. I am looking at, you know, the corresponding number of 743 that you provided last year after net cash remittances for the group. So what would be the corresponding number to that number for 2024? I excluding the negative impact from corporate and consolidation.

I have to ask my colleagues 4% to 5%?

Could you repeat your question? I'm not sure whether we got the right answer here.

Sorry. I've just looking at the net cash contribution from subsidiaries numbers, I excluding the negative contribution from the corporate operations, So contribution. So the reported number for the last year was, like, 743,000,000. That you reported in your FY '23 slide. So just trying to understand what was the total cash contribution from the subsidiary for this year? Net of any corporate operations.

So Okay. I received some support from my colleagues here in the studio. And so I'm not quite sure whether I got your question right. But if I got it right, then in 2024, we were able to achieve more than €1,000,000,000 cash contributions from all the subsidiaries and dividend payment from Hannoveri. Is that right? I'm not quite sure. Maybe we can take it off bilaterally after the Sure. We can take it offline.

So we follow-up with you Bavin, separately over the phone. The number Jan just gave was the capital from all subsidiaries, and we clarify the rest on the phone. If that was okay with you. Is there anything else, Bavin, we could help you with?

No. That's really helpful. Thank you so much, Bant. All right. So we call you later to clarify the cash. Thing. And then Michael has other questions. Michael?

Sorry about that. Yes. Just curious, [indiscernible] Haversi and Balboa, so these are the three topics. So Viridium, you kind of earned 10%. Just wondered whether the aim is to keep that 10% whatever happens. Speaking to Allianz, what they explained is that the article in the German press is relatively accurate And that article kind of says that would potentially open the door for Allianz itself to do back book deals. So I imagine that having 10% in Viridium is always an interesting insight into whether back book deals would be attractive for you. That's I don't know. And then the other thing is yesterday, Bloomberg said that Helvet and Balboise have held talks. Of course, has kind of indicate half indicated that the Germany is up for sale. And presumably, if they have talks, then then maybe there could be something similar on the Belvoir side. And I was just wondering at what stage would you feel that Retail Germany is strong enough to consider actually increasing its scale itself. Thank you.

Well, first question, Viridium, it's a question for Henri Wary. To answer. And I think there is, as we see in the press, some positive development on that. And some announcement soon. But basically, that's another story, and we will see. What they will do. At the end, we expect this is probably in some months, but basically for timing, we keep it there and we wait Tenno Ari will decide. That's a clear how we are organized in the group. Second one, Retail Germany, no comment on procedure, which are happening in the market now. We are on observer status and no comment on that. Sorry for that, Mikael.

Okay. So looking at the screen, market question has been dealt with. No other questions seem to be outstanding. So then I hand back to Thorsten for concluding remarks.

Well, the concluding remarks basically, thank you very much for showing interest in our share and I hope that my colleagues and help you support even between the calls let's say. And I again just thank you very much. Have a nice week. Goodbye.