Trinseo PLC Price & Performance (TSE)

Thank you, Jael, and good morning, everyone. At this time, all participants are in listen only mode. After our brief remarks, instructions will follow to Our disclosure rules and cautionary note on forward looking statements are noted on Slide 2. During this presentation, we may make certain forward looking statements. Including issuing guidance and describing our future expectations, We must caution you that actual results could differ materially from what is discussed, described or implied in these statements Factors that could cause actual results to differ include, but are not limited to, the risk factors set forth in Item 1A of our annual report on Form 10 ks or in our other filings made with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The company undertakes no obligation to update or revise its forward looking statements Today's presentation includes certain non GAAP financial measurements. Reconciliation of these measurements to corresponding GAAP measures is provided in our earnings release and in the appendix of our investor presentation The replay of today's conference call and transcript will be archived on the company's Investor Relations website shortly following the conference call. The replay will be available until Feb. 13, 2026. Now, I would like to turn the call over to Frank Bosech.

Thanks, Vee, and welcome to our year end 2024 earnings call.

Before we get into our financial results, I'd like to highlight some of our outstanding safety achievements. We've had 1 of the safest summers in the history of the company this past year, I'm proud to announce that 19 production and recycling facilities all of our global R and D teams and 2 site service teams received a triple 0 award.

Which represents 0 recordable injuries, 0 spills, and 0 process safety events for the entire year. With an injury rate of just zero point three we continue to operate in the top quartile of companies in the American Chemistry and outperformed many of our peers. These results are a testament to the priority that we place on safety, in everything that we do, and our reflection on the dedication that our people have to creating a safe work environment. Moving on to our operational results, this past year saw a continuation and in some case cases, a worsening of many of the market challenges that the chemical industry Geopolitical uncertainty, elevated inflation and relatively high interest rates eroded consumer confidence across the globe.

Which adversely affected our largest end markets of auto, building and construction and most significantly Europe most significantly in Europe and China. Despite these macroeconomic challenges, we were able to improve our full year adjusted EBITDA by $50,000,000 Because of the self help actions that we've taken over the past couple of years, Amid these challenging times, our focus has been on executing actions within our control and aligned toward transformation strategy. As we wait for the macroeconomic environment to inevitably recover. These included exiting our unprofitable and energy intensive staggering inversion polycarbonate production operations consolidating several of our PMMA sheet operations, and rightsizing the company and its support functions based on the new operating footprint. We also implemented new supply chain systems and processes that enabled a greater than 20% reduction in days of inventory to a level that can be sustained through the cycle. Finally, we took actions to extend our near term debt maturity to 2028 and greatly improved our liquidity. All of these actions have resulted in more efficient, and focused company. Compared to the when we began these actions, our energy intensity has decreased by approximately 45% Our maintenance CapEx has decreased by more than 35% and due to work process improvements and footprint reductions, we have reduced our total headcount by approximately 20% These actions have allowed us to continue to make progress in our and circular technologies.

We continue to grow our recycled content containing product offerings with sales increasing 47% versus prior year. And representing now 4% of the total company variable margin in 2024. Sales volumes were higher to higher margin case applications continued to make up an increasing percentage of volumes in our Latex Binders segment. Accounting for 11% of our total segment sales volumes and 18% of our total segment variable margin in 2024.

And in our Engineered Materials segment, PMMA Resin sales and margins continue to show resilience as volumes increased 3% year over year despite a very weak end market demand environment. We have also made significant advance These include commissioning our polycarbonate dissolution pilot facility, and opening our ABS dissolution pilot plant and our PMMA DIMM depolymerization demo facility in 2024, We anticipate scaling up the PC and PMMA technologies [indiscernible] and the PC dissolution technology at our Jiang Zhejiang China site to support the growing demand from our auto clients. Next, I want to spend a few moments discussing our recently announced agreement with Deepak Nitride Limited. In Nov. 0, we agreed to supply a polycarbonate license as well as all proprietary virgin polycarbonate production equipment from our Stad, Germany facility to Deepak for a combined total of $52,000,000 While the economics of producing virgin poly carbonate at our Stad facility have become unprofitable and led to our decision to exit that site. Our polycarbonate technology remains highly valued. And the assets can still be utilized. We view this agreement as mutually beneficial to both companies and see this as the initial steps of a strategic and collaborative partnership with Deepak.

We also see India as a significant growth market Retrenzio currently has minimal exposure. We believe in a base case scenario of at least 7% compound annual demand growth through the end of the decade our target end markets, Before I hand the call over to Dave, I'd like to make a few comments regarding our results.

Core business results were in line with our expectations as seasonally lower volumes and extended year end shutdowns led to sequentially lower profitability. Following raw material prices, resulted in significant negative timing impacts our Polymer Solutions segment and at Americas Stemrenx. This led to lower adjusted EBITDA than originally anticipated, the lower raw material prices led to lower working capital balances, which contributed to the highest quarter of free cash flow generation in over two years.

Now I'd like to turn the call over to Dave.

Thanks, Frank. Before I get into results, I'd like to spend a few minutes discussing our new reporting segments. At the end of the we announced restructuring measures that included combining the management's of our engineered materials, plastic solutions and polystyrene businesses. As a result, we made 2 substantive changes to our reportable segments to be more representative of this new structure and how we intend to operate the businesses going forward.

First, the automotive compounding business that was previously part of plastic solutions has been moved into Engineered Materials. This was a natural move since we already have a smaller compounding business and significant automotive exposure within Engineered Materials. The second change is that we are combining polystyrene with the 2 remaining businesses in plastic solutions ABS and SAN and are renaming the segment Polymer Solutions. That increased our available liquidity by approximately $150,000,000 and extended the maturity date of the $115,000,000 of debt that was due in 2025 to 2028. Pro form a for this transaction, we ended 2024 with almost $500,000,000 of available liquidity and no maturities until 2028. Moving on to financial results, adjusted EBITDA of $26,000,000 was $6,000,000 higher than prior year and included a $9,000,000 unfavorable net timing impact primarily in Plastic Solutions as Styrene prices fell throughout the quarter. Results were also negatively of unfavorable net timing at Americas Styrenics due to falling raw material costs. Absent these headwinds, core business results were in line with expectation and improved versus prior year for each of our operating segments. Engineered Materials saw the highest year over year improvement due to moderating input costs improved PMMA pricing, and a 61% increase in volume sold into consumer electronics Apple Cash provided by operations during the quarter was $85,000,000 which resulted in free cash flow of $64,000,000 Now, I'll turn the call back over to Frank.

Thanks, Steve.

Looking ahead to 2025, we do not currently anticipate meaningful demand recovery in our major end markets. Geopolitics have negatively impacted our business over the past three years and we look forward to the resolution of some of the worldwide conflicts that have disrupted global trade flows and decreased European competitiveness.

This in mind, I'd like to give a brief update on the sale process of our joint venture America we along with our partner remain committed to IMSDIG with a focus on maximizing value To this end, we expect an improved valuation environment later this year, which would result in assigning later than originally anticipated. We remain very confident that the sale process will be successful and we'll update the market once we have more clarity on timing. We expect the to be following the pronounced seasonality and negative timing impacts that we experienced at year end. We are seeing seasonally higher volumes to begin but still expect volumes to be lower year over year. Due to continued weakness in automotive and building and construction end markets and in paper applications in Asia. As a result, we expect adjusted EBITDA of $60,000,000 to $80,000,000 which includes a 1 time $26,000,000 contribution from the Polycarbonate technology license agreement to Deepak. I believe the actions we've taken over the past two years have positioned us well for an eventual market end recovery and the refinancing transaction, which we give us ample runway to continue pursuing our strategy. And now we're happy to take your questions.

Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. Your first question comes from the line of Frank Mitsch of Fermium Research. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning, folks. I want to follow-up on Slide 14 in terms of the cash spend that you're expecting for 2025.

Standing at $3.90,000,000 dollars Frank, I believe or perhaps it was David last quarter was mentioning a number in the low 300s.

In terms of the spending. I'm just curious as to where you're seeing the net cash expenditures pick up from what it was a few months ago? Good morning, Frank.

The only changes I would say the only changes Based on the last time we talked, we're about this figure, which is admittedly higher than it was last year. Is in working capital. I mean predicting working capital The $40,000,000 outflow of working capital is a function of really 2 things. Volume over the course of the year, which as Frank said, we don't We're not baking into our forecast any thing of significance there, but also raw material prices. So our working capital [indiscernible] is the working capital inflow or outflow is really a function of our forecast of raw material prices at the end of the year, which look admittedly, Frank, standing here February '13 is not making it a little hard to predict.

So that line item particularly is is quite likely to change going forward. Cash taxes, a little bit higher than what they were last year. Also, Frank, last year, I think was more like $20,000,000 and that's just a function of higher profitability. So that's real those are the only changes. Okay, all right. That's it. I totally understand. And David, when you were talking about the negative timing impacts in restraining profitability or restraining the EBITDA that was reported due to lower 2 ways because you guys are now merchant styrene monomer purchasers. So I'm curious as to how we should think about the benefits that I guess you're seeing in from the lower styrene pricing, how would you factor that in? To the overall profitability?

Yes, Frank, a lot of you can imagine that a lot of our pricing on our styrene containing products are Our index on the on the styrene index pricing, so it's generally a pass through Okay, got you. Got you. Okay. So Alright. Understood. And then I assume in terms of the delay on the AmSty sale from the to the obviously, you guys are operating hand in glove with CP Chem, correct?

Yes. We're in close obviously, we're in close cooperation with our joint venture partner and And again, as I said, anticipate environment later this year?

Got you. Thanks so much.

Your next question from the line of Matthew Blair of Tudor, Pickering and Holt and Company. Your line is open.

Thank you and good morning. I had 2 questions on the guidance. First, how much of an impact, if any, is embedded from from rising European natural gas prices in the guide.

And could you provide an update on on any sort of hedges you might have for 2025 And then 2, is there any assumption on net timing benefits in that guide?

So, yes, that's a great question. So, there will be In a timing of pricing lag due to natural gas price increases and those [indiscernible] into mainly EM that are based on natural gas prices. So we would expect that or the current expectation is that the quarterly pricing that we provided at the end of last year for to our the input in cost increase from the natural gas prices and And that's mainly an EM related issue. [indiscernible] Matthew, as it relates to hedging, look, we've obviously been monitoring this very closely. We have been putting in hedges generally for the short term in the Obviously, I'm sure you've seen the news or there's a lot of positive kind of speculation coming out of some resolution to the Ukraine situation. And a follow on to that would be a potential reopening of supply from Russia to Europe with natural gas, which obviously I think would have a very deflationary effect on natural gas prices in Europe. So so we do have some hedges in place for the It's low at [indiscernible] It's less than 50% And obviously, it's the near term prices are really impacted more by the weather than anything else, but also looking longer term, we're watching the Ukraine situation closely a little bit reticent probably right now given that to put on any kind of long term hedge in natural gas for Europe?

I do also just Matthew, just want to point out, I mean, due to we've exited our energy intensive businesses In Europe, the 2 siren plants as well as polycarbonate. So the only real energy intensive operation that we still have is MMA production in Italy. So our energy intensity has gone down considerably since the last time we went through it's about half of what it used to be. So the last time we went through this or the last time we had an energy crisis in Europe, our exposure was 2x of what it is today.

That's helpful. Thank you. And my follow-up, it seems like 1 of the bright spots in the quarter was in 61% increase in volumes into consumer electronics. Do you have any more details here? Was this the result of a like a new product launch? And maybe a 1 time benefit or do you think this is something more sustainable? Thank you.

Yes.

So maybe just to I think 1 of the big things year over year was that you had a very low base in 2023 by comparison. So '23 was a low year in consumer electronics. For many reasons in end consumer demand. So 1, you're starting at a low point But I'm really excited about the work that the team has done during the course of and into 2024 diversify our customer base.

I would [indiscernible] I would generally say that our while this has been a really strong growth part of our business and 1 of the biggest areas for recycled containing products where we're selling into the consumer electronics area we it was a fairly concentrated customer base. And these would be the larger brand names in consumer of diversifying our sales into new customers last year and these are really bespoke products. It's not we're custom formulating a product with up to 60% to 70% recycled content for specific applications. And so for that reason, we think these are really resilient sales. And again, the big driver the 2 big drivers are the year over year comparison as well as diversification of our customer base.

Great. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Hassan Ahmed of Alembic Global Advisors. Your line is open.

Good morning, Frank. A question around guidance. You guys are guiding to correlate midpoint of guidance $70,000,000 for I understand there are some moving parts associated with that. But if I annualize that, that's only $2.80,000,000 dollars I mean, I know there know there are all these sort of macro uncertainties and the like, but how should we be thinking about 2025?

Yes.

Look, I mean, we great question. And for the reasons that you said, we're not we're reluctant to try and predict the full year guide at this point. But look, we're very confident in continued positive earnings development in 2025. And the drivers are I'll give you the buckets. So what we announced with Deepak, so $26,000,000 of EBITDA contribution from The licensing agreement The SG and A reductions that we announced last year in restructuring, will we give a full year benefit of $25,000,000 The PC asset closure and then the as well as the new business awards that we've received in qualifying new customers are similar in magnitude to those previous 2 areas. And then lastly, I would point out that we would expect a much more normalized earnings contribution or EBITDA contribution from AmSty this year And You could do the math, but over the past four years, EBITDA contribution for Trinseo from our participation in AmSty was $68,000,000 and we would expect a contribution closer to that than the result we had last year. Those are the big buckets of contribution excluding market. The market whatever happens in the market And so, I would that's how I would think about it once you land your market assumptions on the underlying demand.

Very helpful, Frank. And as a follow-up, we've seen a nice sort of rebound in the Engineered Materials sort of segment EBITDA margin wise. I mean, last quarter it was 12% EBITDA margins. Now it's 10%. Which obviously year on year is is a healthy sort of expansion. How are you now with all the moving parts and the changes we've seen in the macro thinking about normalized earnings and normalized EBITDA margins in that segment. [indiscernible] mean Hassan, we've been it's impossible I couldn't tell you what normal is. So What I can tell you is we're confident in our ability to show positive earnings momentum in the EM I think we have a great Portfolio, I mean, just as we talked about, look at In last year's environment where we saw I would say generally in many of our end markets some weakening in demand we were able to grow PMMA resin 3% in volume Fantastic story in the growth that we've seen in our engineered compounds that go into consumer electronics, it's over 60% growth. And then the other thing that I would point to is These same customers are demanding there's significant pull from the market for recycled and circular solutions And we believe we have a unique and leadership position in recycling [indiscernible] AVS, PC and PMMA that go into those end segments And so those investments that we will continue to drive will give us continued momentum there.

So I feel good about the work the team has done in EM and I think there's more to come. Very helpful. Thanks so much, Frank.

Your next question comes from the line of Laurence Alexander of Jefferies.

Your line is open. [indiscernible] Just 1 is on the searchularity and recycling, can you just give a sense for what your total sort of size of your platform is? In those products and how the margins compare with balance of your business? And then can you touch on what you think the CapEx needs might be down the road, say over four, five years if the recycling platforms are going to start to scale up, So the volume of the recycled containing products for all of 2024 and I'm looking at B and Dave to keep me I think it was 4% for the full year but it was growing as the year progressed. So I think that in it actually got to 5% of our our total volume. The sales of recycled containing products grew as I said, over 40% last year.

So we're seeing relative to our ability to supply and source the material we've see relatively unlimited demand from our end customers. So going to the CapEx this it's a really interesting and dynamic question on this. But these are these investments are not significant. They're either high single digit or low double digit million modules. So these are modular investments that we would make where we could install those at our various downstream plants and the investments depending again, we're it's early days, but it's high single digit to low double digit million per module. Okay. And then you asked about margin premium. We're seeing in each of the areas that a sustainable offering or a circular offering in PC ABS, and PMMA as well as polystyrene in the multiple hundred dollars range are significant significant premiums over Virgin the Virgin premiums. Our Virgin markets And so is it fair to say that the payback on any of the modular investments probably be like one point five years, two years. [indiscernible] it's premature for us for me to lean into that 1.

And then a give you a real view on that, but we're seeing very positive preliminarily we see that these would be very positive IRRs. On these types of investments and But again, it's early stages and we're in the process of preliminary engineering and we'll know more in the by the second half of the year.

And then just lastly, could you just calibrate what you're hearing from your customers [indiscernible] further destocking or working capital efficiency initiatives and how much of that is baked into your outlook? In terms of being sort of a fairly steady demand environment?

Yes. So I would generally say that we think that our value chains have gotten pretty pretty tight We think that we've done a great job along in partnership with our customers to take any slack out of the supply chains And we haven't heard of any significant additional initiatives where people would be [indiscernible] [indiscernible] inventory levels down. We haven't We haven't seen that. And I guess maybe this is the 1 data point that we are looking at.

From a longer term our midterm demand standpoint is what is Let's talk about building and construction and automotive. Since 02/8, there's been a deficit in North America and Europe in terms of new construction versus household formation. So there's massive pent up demand there. We think the value chains have largely they've become balanced. And then in automotive, while demand is weaker, it's a consumer confidence issue. It's not a inventory. We don't see it as an [indiscernible] we watch the age of the car park and the data that I we just looked at this morning would tell us that in Europe, the car park the auto fleet is over twelve years old.

Which is historical historically highest level of age of the car parking in North America, it's over twelve years. Which is 1 of the oldest fleets that I remember in my career. So Yes, I'm not we don't see a big drive to Destock.

Your next question comes from the line of Roger Spitz of Bank of America. Your line is open.

First, can you speak about the impact of of tariffs for instance? How much do you sell to Canada, Mexico and or China from directly from The USA?

Yes. So On tariffs, we're thinking about tariffs in 3 dimensions. Okay? So dimension number 1 is, okay, what are we importing at? What are our purchases from countries that could be subject to import tariffs And there we believe that impact will be negligible to us because we're the purchases are relatively small. And the commodities that we're buying from those countries are in oversupply And so we have the ability to switch to avoid the tariff, to switch our suppliers. The second dimension is where do we sell our products from The U. S. Production into countries where there could be tariffs. And And I would just say in general, most of the by far most of The U. S. Production is consumed in The U. S. Our exports from The U. S. To Canada and Mexico represent low single digit percentages of our overall of our overall sales, and 80% of those are in the auto value chain and we're highly specified into the tiers. So we don't necessarily believe that we will see an impact in terms of demand sitting here today, if tariffs were imposed on those sales, Then the third bucket or the third dimension unknowable at this point is what would be the end market Demand impact on imposition of significant tariffs and it's that's there's a lot of uncertainty and we just don't know at this juncture.

Thank you for that.

My other question, looking at Slide 12 of the deck. For instance, the AR securitization, you have $50,000,000 left over of availability, excuse me. Does that mean that I guess it'll come out with the Q, but are you drawing $100,000,000 under the AR securitization or is or is there borrowing base limitations here? Yes. Hi, Roger. Good morning. It's Steve.

So there's a borrowing base. So The amount we have to borrow against obviously the The receivables balance was quite low understandably at the end of Q4 just because of the kind of seasonality of sales in the quarter.

So our borrowing, we were able to so it's $150,000,000 facility Almost always going back in time, we've had full availability based on the borrowing base It happened to be particularly low at the end of the year because of lower seasonal volumes, but also lower prices. I talked about earlier big drop in styrene prices.

So we are at $125,000,000 at the end of the quarter able to be borrowed and there was $75,000,000 drawn I would expect that borrowing base that borrowing base will be higher in Got it.

And your last question comes from the line of Alex Kelsey of Wells Fargo. Your line is open.

Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. A couple of follow ups from what's been asked already. With regard to the EM segment, just now that there's automotive automotive components in there as well, The $27,000,000 reported in how much of that was pure EM versus auto?

Of the $27,000,000 Alex, there was always a pretty significant automotive automotive exposure in Engineered Materials.

In fact, auto and building and construction are the largest end markets for what I would call legacy engineered materials So PMMA, a lot of PMMA resin [indiscernible] I don't have a number for it. We'll have to get it up the percentage The automotive compounding business that moved We'll have to get that and give it to you offline.

I just wanted to clarify that in more detail. The automotive compounding segment, not automotive in But okay, that's fine. We can follow-up. Another 1 on the license sale, with your Indian partner, you just remind us the duration of that agreement? And then I guess the bigger question is, if there is a expiration on that agreement, to the extent that the license and technology is still valuable, can you enter into a similar agreement again? And then on the other question on that partnership is, Frank, I think you mentioned the start of a strategic relationship with that partner. Can you just talk about what that means or anything else we should expect with them Yes. So no, thanks. It's a great question. Maybe let me let me give you a little color or a little more background on who Deepak Nitrite is.

Deepak is 1 of the largest Indian public company public companies in the chemical industry, they are the largest phenol acid And this is an attempt this is a move on their part to move downstream to forward integrate in these value chains because India is a net importer of polycarbonate. There is no domestic production as well. And so this That's sort of their strategy. Their sales are over, they're a multibillion dollar revenue company market cap of $450,000,000,0.0 So they are a substantial company and have a great presence and cost position in the value chains we participate. So So, it's India's in my career, I've had a lot of operations in India. It's a hard it's hard to get critical mass in India, so partnerships are important. And so having a substantial company that you're partnered with that gives you access to the market is important. And like we said earlier, in our downstream formulated products, we would see a high single digit compounded annual growth rate in our end markets for our solutions and It's a it's a big opportunity for us going forward. [indiscernible] the license, it's a perpetual license. We believe our as I said in the script, we believe our polycarbonate technology is unique and 1 of the best technologies in the industry It just didn't in Germany it was disadvantaged but for a number of reasons, But elsewhere, it is a significant value.

And then we have the option to expand the capacity Okay. Okay. That's very helpful. 2 more for me if I may. On 2025, I reticent to offer a true guide out there. If I just take the cleansing docs in the last transaction, $25,000,000 estimate of $300,000,000 to three fifty EBITDA. As we sit here today knowing what we know and don't know about the market, do you think that those are still a reasonable goalpost for the year? Yes, I'm not we're not going to give guidance for the full year or even bracket it, but what I would tell you, because there's so much market uncertainty, there's There's positives and negatives that are in development even over last night. Development. So it's I don't want to bracket end up, but I go back to the comments that I would make that I made, I think for Hassan, We're very confident in positive earnings momentum and a lot of the actions we've taken are well within our control and those buckets are what we talked about with Deepak. The SG and A restructuring the make versus buy decision in polycarbonate and the closure in Stadt as well as business wins And then again, what More north normalized earning contribution from Amstack.

Right. So those are that's a pretty positive Those are positive. Benefits this year.

Right. And last 1, if I may, just the status of cost cuts Frank or David, I think you mentioned $25,000,000 to be realized in 2025. Again, just looking at the old deck that was posted with the last transaction, was noted there was $80,000,000 of cost outs to be realized in $25,000,000 Can you just help me bridge those numbers or more simply just kind of remind us like where you guys stand in terms of total cost outs from the various closures and the corporate restructuring, how much has been realized to date and what we should expect in 2025 and maybe into 2026? Thank you.

Yes, Steve.

We'll have to go back to and try and I don't I'm not sure I could give you an answer to that question. What I'm very certain of is the incremental SG and A benefit from the actions that we announced late last year or $25,000,000 the impact of polycarbonate is there we realize some of that, there's an incremental benefit from some of that. And again, it's I'd have to we'll have to follow-up with you to give you a complete analysis of that. But what I would tell you is we've taken fixed costs down by well over $100,000,000 over the past two years. We're on track to deliver everything that we've announced. So I don't know, I'm looking at Dave to answer that better than I did.

So Alex, look, the actions that we've taken, we will get the full year realization of savings in 2025 substantially. I mean for the the headcount reductions The SG and A restructuring, that's $30,000,000 We got 5 last We'll get an incremental of 25 So we'll get the full run rate of that this year We'll also get the full realization of the polycarbonate savings. Obviously, the styrene stuff was done years earlier. So we're already seeing the full effect of that in 2025.

Thank you. We have time for 1 more question. It comes from the line of David Begleiter of Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Thank you. Just a couple of questions.

Back to guidance and I'm sorry, but 1 more try.

In ex Polycarbonate agreement, you're looking about mid-40s EBITDA The last two years you've seen a progression of roughly $20,000,000 sequentially higher in get to about mid-60s for Is that a good run rate? Is that a good proxy at least Directly speaking for versus perhaps mid-60s versus where we are right now?

Yes, David, thanks for the question.

Actually, is somewhat more depressed than normal because it's been a slower start to the year than than typical. And then I would also say that we have pricing lag in that's not immaterial mainly in EM we've been providing quarterly pricing, we price the product our products to our end customers at the end of Q4.

And again, it's very volatile, but input cost lot of the input costs in the EM in Europe are based on natural gas price. And the TTF has gone up and those related products that are based on TTF have gone up with them. So that we're seeing today we see some pricing lag that would not be recurring after So I would I would say, yes, I would agree with you and will be an improvement. Over but it would not I wouldn't compare it prior year simply because we're seeing more pronounced a more pronounced slow start to the year and then we hit the pricing lag.

Understood. And just on polystyrene, are these assets core now to Trinseo?

No, our polystyrene assets hurt great assets. They're actually we've done a great job managing those in the past couple of years to optimize the free cash flow generation of the assets, but I we believe that other people could would be investors would invest in the growth of those assets and we continue to feel inbounds and work with potential buyers for those assets, but on an individual basis around the world. And there's nothing to report, but again, there's activity and interest. So we would continue to explore the possibility of selling those individual assets and are doing that. And just 1 last thing. On AmSty, it fair to say the process sales process has been halted if it has been halted, when was it halted?

It's not halted. Tom, As I said, we're working in conjunction with our partner, We and our goal is to monetize our interest in AmSty and we will continue to progress that, but we want a time our process to optimize value. And So that just means a later marketing than we had originally anticipated.

Thank you. With no further questions, that concludes our Q and A session. We thank you for your participation. This concludes today's conference call. You may now