TWFG, Inc. Common Stock Price & Performance (TWFG)

It is now my pleasure to introduce Mr. Gordy Bunch, Founder, Chairman and CEO of TWFG Sir, the floor is yours.

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. I appreciate you taking time to join us today to discuss TWFG's fourth quarter and full year 2024 results. Joining me on the call is Janice Wingy, our chief financial officer. After my remarks, Janice will review our financial results in detail. And then we'll open up the call for your questions. I wanna start by thanking our employees, agents, clients, and business partners for their ongoing support. TWFG continues to establish itself as one of the fastest growing independent insurance distribution platforms. With industry leading organic growth and margin expansion. Our model provides agents with cutting edge tools technology, and operational support ensuring they succeed in an evolving insurance landscape. Before we dive into our 2024 results, I want to briefly acknowledge the January 2025 wildfires caused significant devastation in parts of Los Angeles. These events are a stark reminder of evolving catastrophic risk and its impact on reinsurance pricing.

While TWFG does not bear direct balance sheet exposure, are closely monitoring reinsurance market trends and carrier responses. We remain confident in our ability to adapt to changing conditions ensuring our agents have access to stable and competitive capacity in key markets. Before diving into our fourth quarter results, I want to highlight TWFG's strong performance in 2024. Total revenue for the year grew by 18.4% to 203,800,000.0. Organic revenue growth of 14.5%. Reflecting both sustained momentum in new business production and strategic expansion efforts Adjusted EBITDA increased 44.7 to 45,300,000 demonstrating the scalability of our platform and operational efficiencies. 2024 was a transformational year for TWFG. We successfully completed our IPO in July, raising 192,900,000.0 in net proceeds. This capital provides us with significant flexibility to accelerate growth through acquisitions expanding geographically and investing in technology to enhance agent productivity and client experiences. Have been focused on growing our national footprint and in 2024, TWFG expanded into 15 new states. And added 144 new retail locations. Bringing our total to 520 retail equate locations across 34 states. In addition, our MGA now supports agents across 42 states at year end. Total written premium for 2024 reached 1,500,000,000.0 an 18.3% increase year over year.

Reinforcing our ability to drive growth in both our retail and wholesale channels. As we continue to enhance agent productivity technology and strategic acquisitions, we remain confident in our ability to sustain high levels of organic growth, It is important to note that locations take time to mature and contribute meaningfully to revenue and profitability. Historically, it takes two to three years for new agencies to reach profitability and longer to realize their full growth potential. We remain committed to supporting our new locations to ensure long term success. Our M and A strategy continues to be a core part of our growth plan. As we evaluate M and A opportunities, our focus remains on acquiring high quality agencies that align with our culture and strategic vision. While acquisitions will be a key driver of long term growth, we are maintaining financial discipline. Prioritizing organic expansion, technology investments, and balance sheet flexibility. We remain committed to keeping leverage within a prudent range ensuring financial strength as we scale. Technology is at the core of TWFG's differentiated differentiated approach. Our constant investment in technology combined with our agency in a box model equip agents with enhanced client engagement tools and management tools.

From a market perspective, we are seeing stabilization in carrier appetites, and improvement in loss ratios. Which have opened up new opportunities for growth. Carriers are once again accepting new business at areas where capacity had been previously constrained, While this presents an opportunity for growth, remain mindful of the importance of diversification and maintaining flexibility in our strategy. As Janice will discuss, TWFG delivered a strong financial result for the fourth quarter. Highlighted by 30.8% total revenue growth compared to the prior period, 20.5% organic revenue growth driven by increased new business production and higher premium rates. And an adjusted EBITDA margin of 26.8% reflecting margin expansion from the economies of scale and our efficient operating model. Our Q4 margin outperformance was primarily due to higher contingent commission income and a timing related delay in certain public company expenses. We expect a normalized adjusted EBITDA margin in 2025 reflecting our long term operating efficiency targets. We continue to focus on scaling our platform while optimizing cost structures to drive sustainable margin expansion over time. Looking ahead, our priorities remain clear. We will continue integrating recent and future acquisitions and supporting the growth of our new locations. We will focus on expanding geographically while enhancing our technology and agent support systems.

We will be disciplined in capital allocation, as we pursue both organic and acquisition driven growth. These efforts position TWFG for continued success in 2025 and beyond. Now I'll turn it over to Janice to provide more detail in our financial performance. Performance.

Thank you, Gordie, and good morning, everyone. We will start with the top line written premium, increased by 60,000,000 or 20% over the prior year period to 361,400,000.0 Within our primary offerings, insurance services grew 51,300,000.0 or 20%, and the MGA grew 8,600,000.0 or 19.2% over the prior year period. This growth was driven by a combination of new business acceleration and normalized retention levels. During the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, we saw a healthy in written premium new business growth of 45% or 27,000,000 over the prior year period. As well as renewal business growth of 14% or $33,000,000 over the prior year period within both of our product offerings. We have also maintained steady retention levels of 91% quarter over quarter. Drivers of the growth was primarily due to higher premium rates, written premiums from our 2023 acquisitions rolling into the current year, and new business growth as carriers opened up for new business in regions where they had previously restricted Going to revenues, our total revenues increased 12,200,000.0 or 30.8% over the prior year period to 51,700,000.0 The increase of 30.8% was mainly due to commission income representing 18.9% of the total growth, contingent income representing 10% of the growth, and fee income representing 1.9% of the remaining total growth.

Commission income increased $7,500,000 or 20.7% over the prior year period 43,700,000.0 driven by higher premium rates, accelerating new business activity, solid economic growth in our core states, and the rollout of our 2023 book of business acquisitions into the current period. The insurance services offering increased 19% over the prior year period represented 16.1% of the total increase. The MGA offering saw growth of 29.5% over the prior year period and represented 4.6% of the total growth. Contingent income increased $3,900,000 or 371% over the prior year period to 5,000,000 benefiting from loss ratio improvements late in the year continued growth in total written premium. Fee income was up $800,000 or 39.8% to 2,800,000.0 primarily due to higher policy counts and increased new business through our marketing activities with 600,000.0 coming from the TWIGO program and our MGA offering. Organic revenues increased $8,800,000 reaching $43,600,000 for an organic growth rate of 20.5%. Driven by rate increases and strong new business growth. Turning to expenses, there are some key considerations here due to the acquisition of nine of our independent branches. These branches were previously part of our agency in a box model, but has now been converted into corporate branches which shifted costs from commission expense to salary and benefits.

Commission expense increased $2,900,000 or 11.2% over the prior year period to 28,900,000.0 The increase represents one, a 5,100,000.0 increase related to the growth of business offset by a 2,200,000.0 decrease related to the branch conversions of which $2,100,000 shifted to salary and benefits. Total salary and employee benefits increased by 3,800,000.0 or 97.8% over the prior year period to 7,700,000.0 This was driven by a $2,100,000 increase from the branch conversion shift from commission expense a 500,000.0 increase related to the 2023 corporate store asset acquisitions, and a $1,200,000 increase from the RSUs issued in conjunction with the IPO. Other administrative expenses increased $2,000,000 or 69.9% over the prior year period to 5,000,000 This increase is mainly due to public company costs, including fees and consulting services, representing 1,200,000.0 or 40% of the total increase. And the remaining increase of 900,000.0 or 29.9% was driven by the continued growth of our business and branch conversions. Amortization and depreciation increased 1,500,000.0 or 101% to $3,100,000 driven by amortization of intangibles from branch conversions and the 2023 corporate store asset acquisitions. Net income for the quarter was 8,200,000.0 a 2,900,000.0 or 56.3% increase over the prior year period. On an adjusted basis, net income increased 3,800,000.0 or 57.2% over the prior year period to 10,500,000.0, including an increase in income at 2,900,000.0 increase in stock based compensation of 1,200,000.0, increase in amortization expense related to acquisitions and branch conversions of 2,900,000.0 offset by a $3,100,000 increase in tax expense on adjusted net income.

EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA were strong at $10,200,000 and $131,800,000.0 dollars respectively. Representing growth of 91.7% for adjusted EBITDA. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 26.8% compared to 18.3% in the prior year period. This expansion was driven by overall growth, but also benefited from outsized contingent commission and investment income, somewhat offset by the ongoing ramp up of public company costs, was expect to normalize over the next few quarters. With that, I will turn it back to Gordie.

Thank you, Janice. Before we open the call for questions, I want to reiterate how proud we are of the progress TWFG has made over the past year. Our strong fourth quarter performance capped off a transformational year which we executed on our IPO expanded into new states, and strengthened our platform through both organic growth and strategic acquisitions. As we move into 2025, we remain focused on executing our strategy expanding our national footprint, enhancing agent support, and maintaining financial discipline while pursuing both organic acquisition driven growth. The investments we are making today are building a strong foundation for long term success. We began 2025 requiring two new corporate locations in Ohio and Texas. The new locations are in line with our acquisition expectations for revenue and EBITDA. Our robust pipeline provides us many quality acquisition targets to achieve the remainder of our 2025 ms and A goals. Our M and A models included beginning 2025 with acquiring $3,000,000 of revenue and 700,000 of EBITDA. With an additional 20,000,000 of revenue and 5,000,000 of EBITDA being acquired with a midyear convention. For the full year 2025, we expect total revenue to be between $235,000,000 and $250,000,000 with organic revenue growth in the range of 11 to 16%.

This growth will be driven by our expanding distribution network deepening carrier relationships, and favorable industry trends. We also anticipate an adjusted EBITDA margin in the range of 19% to 21% reflecting our commitment to operational efficiency while continuing to invest in future growth. We are confident in our ability to drive a strong performance in 2025 and beyond, leveraging our scale and deep industry expertise to create long term value. With that, we'd be happy to take your questions. Operator? Please open the line.

Thank you. And our first question comes from Tommy McJoynt of KBW.

Your line is open.

Hi, this is Dean on for Tommy.

What kind of EBITDA multiples are you guys seeing in the acquisitions that you have in your pipeline? And how has that competition for those acquisitions trended compared to the prior quarter? So the prior quarter, we did not have any acquisitions. 2024 was a pencils down year for us. So not gonna have a trend over prior quarter. But we're seeing, you know, on the smaller revenue size transactions, you're looking at, you know, nine to 10 times EBITDA on larger revenue tracks tractions, and you're gonna see know, 10 to 12 times EBITDA range. When you get into the micro size producer portfolios, you're now dealing in multiples of revenue rather than EBITDA, and those range between one and a half to three times revenue, which can be a five to seven to nine times EBITDA conversion. Hope that's helpful.

Yeah. Very helpful. Thank you. And then my follow-up you obviously did a lot of, like, onboarding of new branches. In the second half of last year. Was just hoping for an update about how the new business has sort of trended versus your expectations? And then if there's been any churn in that business as well?

Yeah. So I think we mentioned on previous calls, it takes several years for newly onboarded scratch agencies to really hit any meaningful production. So they're not really driving any of the results in 2024. They'll have a modest contribution in '25. And more so in 'twenty six. There hasn't been a lot of churn of the onboarded agents. It takes a while for them to get their footing. There may be some consolidation of agents that are proximity to each other for efficiencies. They may you know, merge locations and end up being one location instead of three. We see that occurring. But as far as far as it goes right now, it's too early to tell a real trend off of those newly onboarded agents.

Got it. Thank you.

Thank you. And our next question comes from Mike of BMO. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning. This is Charlie on for Mike. My first question is on organic growth guidance of 11% to 16%. Healthy levels for sure. I guess [indiscernible] a little bit of a wide range especially since we're almost through the first quarter. Can you kind of talk us through the one or two biggest variables that could cause organic growth to swing in either direction? Thanks. Sure. I'll point out a couple variables. First, on private passenger auto, seeing a moderation on rate in 2025. There's also the potential that may shift upward given the concerns about the impacts of tariffs on materials and parts for the private passenger auto repair. So there could be, if there's any realization of increased lost costs, that could put pressure on carriers to go back to a little more aggressive rate increase, would swing the organic up. If things stay where they're at right now, we're kinda in that midpoint of the the range that we've provided. Conversely, if there's a continuation of historically profitable business and carriers choose to lean into growth, that could end up with a rate decrease, which we're not predicting that to occur, but we have to put that out there as it is a possibility that if carriers sustain their fourth quarter results, and lean into growth, then that could create that circumstance.

So that's where you get that range. On property side of the equation, you still have capacity constraints in some geographies. It is starting to soften across a broader part of the of The United States. But out west, as we're all acutely aware, California still doesn't have stabilization in the property market. That tends to drive more business into the California fair plan. Which has less favorable economics. We have secured numerous secondary and tertiary property providers to to give our agents access to stable capacity. But then that rating or pricing that California fare plan has could undermine the natural market So looking for California Fair Plan to hopefully get some rate discipline and have some rate increases of their own. And that could have another secondary impact. As we get into reinsurance renewal cycles, the six-1s and seven-1s, we're hearing, you know, there's the moderation and not a great impact expected. But as we all know, things happen, and we're always cautiously optimistic, and that's why we give you the high and the low range. Of what could impact ultimately rates that then flow into our commission revenues. Got it. Thank you. And then on the EBITDA margin, guidance, you mentioned the public company costs being pushed out.

Or I guess delayed. So was that a push out Did you guys push out the cost, or is it just they they didn't I guess, is there extra cost that, you know, in the 25 guidance?

So there's let's if we think through the margin comparisons of twenty twenty four, versus 2025, first of all, we were only public for half of the year of 2024. So we did not have the full public D and O expense. The increased audit expenses that come post IPO, and additional legal expenses that are public company related. So there's a little bit of a blend. So if you look at the full year 2024, and if you were to add some of those expenses on an annualized basis, that would have brought the 2024 margin down where it's at today. We may be aggressively estimating forward cost in '25 just to be conservative. We want to make sure that we put out a very thoughtful guidance that's achievable. And so there could be some margin upside if we overestimated those impacts. But that's why there's a variance. And that's similar. You didn't ask but I'll volunteer. Our EBITDA margin for '24 was benefited by a outsized '24 contingent revenue that came in largely due to the fourth quarter performance, which most of the public companies reported as their best fourth quarter in as far as anybody can remember.

So we did benefit by that. We're not using the full repeated EBITDA for 2025. If loss ratios from our large trading partners stay where they ended the year and where they're currently at. There could be EBITDA upside on the contingent revenue again in '25. We felt it was a little bit too early in the year to try to bake that into guidance. As we get through the year, if we start seeing that the trend line continues, then we may update the guidance as it becomes clearer to us, and that could provide us EBITDA margin upside. The other piece of our equation and I'm know it's not a question yet, but I'll preempt it, the M and A guidance or the M and A we put out in the earnings release. When we talk about the early years, so we did close the two at the January. We have LOIs that are signed and are looking for some second quarter closings that would get us ahead of the actual model. But the base model of $20,000,000 of additional revenue acquired and $5,000,000 additional EBITDA acquired the midyear convention meant that we were closing those transactions on June 30.

So in twenty twenty five's guidance, that's only showing 10,000,000 of revenue and 2 and a half million of required EBITDA addition to the to the current forward forecast. Know we're gonna get a lot of questions about M and A, but I just wanted to put it out there that the forward guidance did not include the full annualized 20,000,000 of acquired revenue and 5,000,000 of EBITDA. It was half of that in the '25 guidance. We do have a robust pipeline that gives us confidence in what we put out in guidance being achieved. There are several potential transactions in our pipeline that would put us into significantly exceeding that guidance. Our culture is to provide guidance what we believe is achievable and in line of sight. We didn't want to give you the bird in the bush versus the bird in the hand view. We will update as things materialize but there is additional margin upside on the M and A coming in at a faster pace or in larger sizes. Than what we currently put into the model. Thank you. That that was super helpful. If I could just sneak in one more on the [indiscernible] Are those all based on all in loss ratios or underlying loss ratios?

I guess as we think about that for [indiscernible] So with the number of markets we deal with, there's no one answer on how contingencies are calculated. Many of them are on a portfolio wide basis. Some of those are actually isolated to, I'll just say, one particular national market is the entire country with the exclusion of California. It has its own separate calculation from the rest of the country. Some carriers have down to the actual location level incentives. And and bonuses, which would then isolate their portfolio and then the result comes from how that individual portfolio achieved for the full calendar year. We do have some fixed base bonus bonus opportunities where it's more driven by revenue growth or discount growth retention metrics that can give you kickers, and being in certain bands within their organization of size.

I know that's not the clearest answer, but when it comes to variable comp contingencies, they really run the gamut of metrics. Makes it very hard to estimate with any accuracy. We do get a much clearer line of sight to what we expect when you get through the third quarter. Usually, the larger markets in October provide us with lock in options. If we are what we consider to be in the money. That means that our loss ratio and growth metrics are achieving a bonus through the first nine months. We then have the optionality of locking in that bonus metric for a discounted contingency. So we do take a haircut on the ultimate payout for that guaranteeing the outcome. But that doesn't become clear until we get into October and sometimes early November before the carriers provide us that information. To give you a little bit more flavor, 2024 came in at 0.59% of premium. As far as the contingent received. Right now, on our forecast, we're using 0.45. So if we were just to use the same metric from '24, that would drop down to our bottom line and our EBITDA margin projections would be higher.

Again, we prefer to be conservative until we have more definitive information that shows that as the future outcome. Thank you.

Thank you. And our next question comes from Brian Meredith of UBS. Your line is open.

Yeah, thanks. A couple of ones here for you, Gordie. First one, is it possible to give us what agency in a box kind of written premium growth would have looked like maybe fourth quarter twenty twenty four, if if we adjust for the ones that became corporate branches? Just to kind of get a kind of decent organic written premium growth run rate there.

I believe Janice might be able to parse that out for you.

I mean, I I can wait on that. That's fine. Yeah. You got it?

Yeah. So for the quarter, '18 a box, was 18.4% growth. Support without branch, that's excluding branch conversion.

Perfect. That's what I'm looking for. Thank you. And then the second one, Gordie, you you talked a little bit about California. What about Florida? We're hearing that business is being transferred out of Citizens. Is is that gonna be a potential tailwind for you all? And 2025 as stuff goes from citizens into the regular market?

So Florida is an opportunity for expansion for us. We have been intentionally small in Florida. Pre AOB litigation, legislation reform, Florida was a very volatile state who was dealing with repetitive and numerous insolvencies. The stability there just didn't exist. Post AIAOB legislation, the frequency of claims and litigated filing on homeowners losses substantially shrunk. We are starting to see to your point, citizen takeout, startup [indiscernible] And we are looking out East for opportunities in Florida now where in the past, we had been avoiding the state. So I do think that's an opportunity the downsize, I saw legislation filed in Florida, I think, earlier this week where they're trying to put back in some litigation rights for consumers, which I'm not sure how how if that'll go through given that they've only been living underneath the new rules that is softening the market. Benefiting consumers. For the last really year and a half, two years. But we are looking out at Florida There's a number of different opportunities for us in that space. Our MGA side could look at programs could look at partnering with some of these new reciprocal takeouts or even stock company takeouts, for distribution and underwriting.

And so I do think Florida does have potential upside for TWFG in N25. Nothing that's materialized yet, but we are certainly open now to Florida where in the past we've been avoiding them.

Gotcha. That's great. And I think you briefly mentioned your comments. You know, maybe you can a little bit about the MGA opportunity in California post the fires. Kind of how you're thinking about that?

That's an evolution. Think it really is coming down to the wildfire exposures confidence in wildfire models, reinsurance support around the the new modeling that's being created. We've been fortunate to partner with others that have already created surplus lines homeowners capacity. I don't know that we're going to be looking at rolling out a program in California given that we had a number of strategic partners initiate their own. They've already gotten the paper. They've already gotten the reinsurance. And they're already underway writing. If we feel like capacity is going to get constrained, then we might look at creating a product that wraps around the California fare plan. I mentioned earlier California Fair Plan is becoming like Florida citizens and Louisiana in their hardest markets where they're riding a disproportionate amount of the business. I don't know if California plans to initiate rate changes within the California fare plan but that undermines the natural marketplace, which makes it harder to create a viable program if your competition's the state. So we do have good viable national markets that are still taking in new business, and then we do have secondary and tertiary markets that are supporting the peripheral of those risk in high hazard places.

Low hazard places, and across a broad spectrum of, coverage a sizes. At this point we're okay, but we do have that that muscle to flex. If necessary to come in with a market But we do need to have more confident wildfire modeling tools to entice in the reinsurers and the paper to enter that marketplace.

Great. Thank you.

Yep. Thank you.

And our next question comes from Pablo Zinfand of JPMorgan. Your line is open.

Hey, guys. This is Judson on for Pablo. I thought maybe just we could first drill back down on the agency growth. I know you guys mentioned that agencies weren't exactly driving any results in 2024. I guess first maybe could you clarify if you mean from a premium perspective or profitability? And if it's the latter, what the contribution may be from first year agencies is in 2024 to premiums? Thanks.

Good question. I don't have contributions of premium from the newly onboarded agents on hand. I can provide that to you and Pablo on our subsequent one on one. I would put it back to not significant. When you onboard a new agency that has no existing premium, they're starting from scratch. They're going through an onboarding process. In 2024, if you would disproportionate number of these agencies came from a singular carrier. That had been prior captive that allowed them to contract with us. They had a foot in two camps, so part of their portfolio was being nonrenewed. And the other part of their portfolio was being retained by their incumbent market. The timing of those nonrenewals was not equal across all the we expanded into. So some of those states that we onboarded have not yet started their nonrenewal process. So for the most part, those newly onboarded agencies have not contributed much yet. Those earlier states that had already started a non renewal process have made more progress in being productive if that's beneficial.

Yep. Thank you very much. And then I guess just second, CapEx was was a little bit elevated. I guess maybe you could just talk about what exactly you all were investing into in the fourth quarter and how twenty twenty four's results in that line item compare to what you think of as like run rate capital investment into the business going forward?

Sure. The largest part of the CapEx for '24 was relocation into our new facilities. We had been located in the same office for twenty years, and if you go back and look at our prior CapEx, we didn't have a lot because we had been in the same aged facility for so long. So we moved our home office in the fourth quarter. That CapEx was tied to that, the new facilities, new technology, new infrastructure. To support us as a public company going forward. We have some CapEx in 'twenty five. That's the expansion of our facilities in Philippines, allowing us to onboard additional virtual assistants to help our retail agencies control labor costs within their environment, provide overflow support. Also, back office support in The Philippines. Our current facility in The Philippines is at capacity, which is great. That means we have strong demand for those services. So we will have a little bit of CapEx for The Philippines expansion. We will have some CapEx in 2025 going into technology. We do know there are several initiatives we have around automation, and so there will be some CapEx looking at developing in those tools, the integration, with and so it's several different workflow optimizations that we can achieve through some technology investment.

I would put it I would put it at you know, probably less than what you saw in the fourth quarter. For the full year 2025, Great. Thank you.

Thank you. We have a follow-up from Mike Zaremski of BMO. Your line is open.

Hey. This is Charlie on for Mike again. I just have one quick question. As far as the, you know, the new agents kind of consolidating a little bit, how long do you see that taking to get resolved?

Over time?

Thanks. I think we'll have that pretty well ironed out through 'twenty five. What occurs is with the mass onboarding we had last year, these producers and agents from that one carrier, all endeavored to try to own their own separate location or operate their own separate location. The ones that were smaller in scale are now realizing that it's more efficient for them to partner with one of their peers and consolidate. So we saw a little bit of that in 'twenty four. I would anticipate seeing more of that in 'twenty five. But beyond that, calendar year, I think that that would be a continuation. Most of the folks that are starting to hit a stride and getting their their foundation or their feet on solid foundation. They'll stay their own individual locations. And just as a reminder, the number of locations is not something that we look at as a metric. You know, if you go back multiple calendar years, our double digit organic growth was achieved with the same store account we had for almost three years straight.

So we're gonna continually have our out of our existing agency in the box stores agents retire those portfolios consolidate into other existing ACA box stores. So you may see some fluctuation in total store count. But the portfolios are all remaining with the company. And it doesn't change our outlook on the organic growth going forward.

Thank you. I'm showing no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn it back to Gordie Bunch for closing remarks.

Thank you, Didi, and thank you all for participating in today's call. I just want to recap.

We had a inflection point in our business last year. Really can't say enough about the team that helped us not just get through the IPO, which is a task into itself, but to sustain our trajectory of growth. In a historic period of time for this organization. So appreciate all of my executive team, all of our managers, all of our agents. All of our producers that work within our agencies, all of our CSRs, all the admins that are answering the phones, and all of our carriers that have come alongside us to partner to allow us to have this opportunity help, in insurance distribution in a way that didn't exist a quarter century ago when we created the company. And extremely proud of the results. Look forward to following up with those that had follow-up questions. And invite you to our we have our annual meeting Remind me of the date for the annual meeting. Are we gonna put that out yet? May 20.

Twenty eighth. I apologize. May 28 is our annual meeting. It's going to be virtual this year. We'll provide details in the future, but for anybody who wanted to mark their calendars, that's we intend to have our annual meeting. So appreciate everybody's interest and look forward to a great 2025. That's all I have.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.